Lily - My English Setter became an angel April 24, 2021

[MikeMurphy]

Hi Everyone,

Just came across this very helpful site and thought that I would share some information about our six year old diabetic English Setter, Lily.

Here's a picture of Lily in 2012, before being diagnosed with diabetes ...



Lily was first diagnosed with diabetes in August 2013 after she suddenly became very lethargic and would not eat. After running some tests, our regular vet determined that she had a bladder infection along with very high blood gloucose levels > 600. The vet gave her antibiotics and told me she was diabetic and needed to be on insulin.

To make a long story short, Lily started out getting 5 units of Novolin N twice a day that gradually increased to 29 units. After several expensive trips to the vet for blood gloucose profiles that always had ranges > 500, the vet finally determined that Lily was somehow resistant to insulin. The vet then had blood work done for hypothyroidism and cushings disease. The results came back negative. It was now late November 2013. The vet switched her insulin to Vetsulin and that did not help.

By now Lily was getting more sluggish, started loosing hair, getting a dull coat getting black skin on her belly and her toenails started getting flaky. All the reading I had done on insulin resistance in dogs pointed to hypothyroidism, but my vet kept insisting that was not it.

So in December 2013, I decided we needed a second opinion and took Lily to a veterinary internal medicine specialist, who immediately saw that she had a thyroid problem, did a full thyroid profile on her which came back positive.

The specialist put her on Soloxine tablets twice a day and the insulin immediately started working. Lily's blood sugar levels are now consistently < 200! Thank God and her specialist! She is now back on Novolin N, 18 units twice a day.

Her coat is now starting to fill out. Unfortunately, she now has developed cataracts and can't see. We now have to deal with that. For now, She is doing well finding her way around the house. Her internalist has recommended a very good eye vet. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for listening.

Mike

[k9diabetes]

Re: Lily - My English Setter - Diabetis and Hypothyroidism

What a beautiful girl! She's lucky to have persistent people caring for her!

Natalie

[maladuca]

Hi Mike and Lily! Thank you so much for sharing your story!
My dog Teddy (44 lb cockapoo) has a similar story - started on 5 units of Novolin in June - is up to 19 units now and is still showing blood glucose numbers in the 500s and an occasional 600. His numbers are all over the place. It seems as if we could just keep on raising the insulin level! Someone from this site (Mo) just suggested to me yesterday that I should have Teddy's thyroid levels checked. He has skin allergies, thinning hair, black spots on his stomach and is gaining weight despite his high numbers. Other problems include many tumors, cataracts which led to glaucoma and blindness.
You have encouraged me to seriously look into having him tested. Thanks for sharing!!
Margaret

[CraigM]

Re: Lily - My English Setter - Diabetis and Hypothyroidism

Just have a moment, but wanted to welcome you and say how beautiful Lily is!

Craig

[MikeMurphy]

Re: Lily - My English Setter - Diabetis and Hypothyroidism

Hi Mike and Lily! Thank you so much for sharing your story!
My dog Teddy (44 lb cockapoo) has a similar story - started on 5 units of Novolin in June - is up to 19 units now and is still showing blood glucose numbers in the 500s and an occasional 600. His numbers are all over the place. It seems as if we could just keep on raising the insulin level! Someone from this site (Mo) just suggested to me yesterday that I should have Teddy's thyroid levels checked. He has skin allergies, thinning hair, black spots on his stomach and is gaining weight despite his high numbers. Other problems include many tumors, cataracts which led to glaucoma and blindness.
You have encouraged me to seriously look into having him tested. Thanks for sharing!!
Margaret

Hi Margaret,

Thanks for the kind words. If you do decide to have Teddy tested for hypothyroidism, make sure they do a full thyroid profile. The basic thyroid tests can be inconclusive, as was Lily's basic testing.

Good luck with Teddy.

Mike

[amydunn19]

Re: Lily - My English Setter - Diabetis and Hypothyroidism

Welcome to you and Lily! She is just stunning! I am glad you got her another opinion!

[momofdecker]

Re: Lily - My English Setter - Diabetis and Hypothyroidism

Welcome to you and Lily -what a beautiful girl - love her point!

My non diabetic boy had a white boxer for a mom and we were told dad was a lab. But he is mostly white with two large black spots on his butt and both eyes/ears are black. As he matured he got many more black spots and lots of feathering along his underbelly, legs, ears and tail. We suspect dad had some spaniel or setter in him - LOL!

How much does Lily weight? Is she spayed?

My diabetic boy suffered from undiagnosed hypothyroidism too. Kudos to you for being so persistent in getting it diagnosed! He was overdosed at 40u of Humulin N in the beginning. We ended dropping him back to 20u, which was twice too much, then to 15u and starting over. He was 97 pounds. From Dec. 2011 to May 2012 he went from 15u to 37u and his blood glucose (bg) remained 300 - 600+ most of the time. We noted his bg did seem to do better in warmer weather. In May 2012 we switched him to levemir (which is four times as potent as humulin/novolin). He started at 5u levemir and was worked up to 10u before we started testing for concurrent diseases. When he started his thyroid meds his levemir insulin needs dropped from 10u to 6u over a five day span. After a couple of weeks it dropped back to 5u - a 50% reduction in insulin.

The AAHA Guidelines have information on how to manage diabetes in dogs and their website states, https://www.aahanet.org/Library/DiabetesMgmt.aspx

"Assessment
The initial evaluation of the diabetic dog and cat should:
Assess the overall health of the animal (history, physical examination, medications, diet).

Identify complications associated with the disease (e.g., cataracts in dogs, peripheral neuropathy in cats).

Identify concurrent problems often associated with the disease (e.g., urinary tract infections, pancreatitis).

Identify conditions that may interfere with response of the diabetic to treatment (e.g., hyperadrenocorticism, hyperthyroidism, renal disease).

Evaluate for risk factors such as obesity, pancreatitis, insulin-resistant disease, diabetogenic medications, and diestrus (in the female dog)."

Though hypErthyroidism is mentioned for cats, hypOthyroidism is not mentioned for dogs in terms of identifying conditions that may interfere with response of the diabetic to treatment . Makes one wonder how many GP vets truly understand the impact a low thyroid can have on a diabetic dog and trying to manage their insulin needs.

Unfortunately for my boy, his main symptoms centered more around his behavior than his physical appearance. By the time he was finally diagnosed he had most of the clinical signs but prior to that he had a full thick coat, was high energy and was a very nervous and reactive dog. We truly didn't understand the full impact the thyroid meds had on him until about four months after he'd been on them. He remained nervous but the reactivate behavior he'd had for many years went away. He too lost his vision to cataracts but did quite well - it took a couple of weeks for his sense of smell and hearing to take over but once they did and his energy level returned to normal - he was quite amazing to watch!

Glad you found your way here and thank you for sharing Lily's story. Best of luck to you both on this continued journey of yours!

Holli

[MikeMurphy]

Re: Lily - My English Setter - Diabetis and Hypothyroidism

Welcome to you and Lily -what a beautiful girl - love her point!

My non diabetic boy had a white boxer for a mom and we were told dad was a lab. But he is mostly white with two large black spots on his butt and both eyes/ears are black. As he matured he got many more black spots and lots of feathering along his underbelly, legs, ears and tail. We suspect dad had some spaniel or setter in him - LOL!

How much does Lily weight? Is she spayed?

My diabetic boy suffered from undiagnosed hypothyroidism too. Kudos to you for being so persistent in getting it diagnosed! He was overdosed at 40u of Humulin N in the beginning. We ended dropping him back to 20u, which was twice too much, then to 15u and starting over. He was 97 pounds. From Dec. 2011 to May 2012 he went from 15u to 37u and his blood glucose (bg) remained 300 - 600+ most of the time. We noted his bg did seem to do better in warmer weather. In May 2012 we switched him to levemir (which is four times as potent as humulin/novolin). He started at 5u levemir and was worked up to 10u before we started testing for concurrent diseases. When he started his thyroid meds his levemir insulin needs dropped from 10u to 6u over a five day span. After a couple of weeks it dropped back to 5u - a 50% reduction in insulin.

The AAHA Guidelines have information on how to manage diabetes in dogs and their website states, https://www.aahanet.org/Library/DiabetesMgmt.aspx

"Assessment
The initial evaluation of the diabetic dog and cat should:
Assess the overall health of the animal (history, physical examination, medications, diet).

Identify complications associated with the disease (e.g., cataracts in dogs, peripheral neuropathy in cats).

Identify concurrent problems often associated with the disease (e.g., urinary tract infections, pancreatitis).

Identify conditions that may interfere with response of the diabetic to treatment (e.g., hyperadrenocorticism, hyperthyroidism, renal disease).

Evaluate for risk factors such as obesity, pancreatitis, insulin-resistant disease, diabetogenic medications, and diestrus (in the female dog)."

Though hypErthyroidism is mentioned for cats, hypOthyroidism is not mentioned for dogs in terms of identifying conditions that may interfere with response of the diabetic to treatment . Makes one wonder how many GP vets truly understand the impact a low thyroid can have on a diabetic dog and trying to manage their insulin needs.

Unfortunately for my boy, his main symptoms centered more around his behavior than his physical appearance. By the time he was finally diagnosed he had most of the clinical signs but prior to that he had a full thick coat, was high energy and was a very nervous and reactive dog. We truly didn't understand the full impact the thyroid meds had on him until about four months after he'd been on them. He remained nervous but the reactivate behavior he'd had for many years went away. He too lost his vision to cataracts but did quite well - it took a couple of weeks for his sense of smell and hearing to take over but once they did and his energy level returned to normal - he was quite amazing to watch!

Glad you found your way here and thank you for sharing Lily's story. Best of luck to you both on this continued journey of yours!

Holli

Hi Holli,

Thanks for the info. Lily weighs 64 lbs and is spayed. I think you are right about many GP vets. Lily's vet only did the T4 thyroid test. Her specialist did the full thyroid profile and that was the key to a correct diagnosis.

Mike

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Lily - My English Setter - Diabetis and Hypothyroidism

Welcome Mike, your Lily is absolutely georgeous, just love her picture thankyou
Glad she is on the right path.

Mo

[MikeMurphy]

Re: Lily - My English Setter - Diabetes and Hypothyroidism

Hi All,

Back with an update on Lily. I've been reporting her BG levels back to her internalist twice a week and so far so good. This week's levels range from 104 to 229 and the internalist is happy with the progress. The next step will be going to the eye vet.

Here are couple more pictures (hope you don't mind).

The first picture was taken the day after we found out that Lily was diabetic. She's with her best friends Carly, Dakota and Carly's sister Maisy.

The second was taken today and shows the effect that hypothyroidism has taken on her. She lost practically all her tail, leg and belly feathering, but it is starting to come back now that she is on Soloxine.

Mike

[Soaphie & Sydney's Mom]

Re: Lily - My English Setter - Diabetis and Hypothyroidism

Great news!

And fantastic pictures - I love that her friends were willing to "pose"!

[Abby's Mom]

Re: Lily - My English Setter - Diabetis and Hypothyroidism

Wonderful news.... she is beautiful. So glad that you were able to determine why she was insulin resistant, and took her to an IMS.

Barb

[momofdecker]

Re: Lily - My English Setter - Diabetis and Hypothyroidism

Great update! Great picture with all the buddies! What a shot of her tail - the feathered tails are one of my favorite features of the setters - glad the coat is on the road to recovery too!

[amydunn19]

Re: Lily - My English Setter - Diabetis and Hypothyroidism

What a lovely group and a great update

[CarolW]

Re: Lily - My English Setter - Diabetis and Hypothyroidism

Sending our best wishes to you, Mike and - gorgeous Lily! SO glad you took her to an IMS (specialist in Internal Medicine). What a great service you did with that report on Lily's hypothyroidism. Love your pictures!

We - Kwali and Kumbi at the Bridge, and non-diabetic Camellia and me on Lowly Earth, wish you and Lily the best!