Kobi...Kevin's New Rescue

[Patty]

Re: Kobi...Kevin's New Rescue

Gotta love it!! I hope he makes the cut

[ozzi]

Re: Kobi...Kevin's New Rescue

Hi all,

I took Kobi for his last shots on Wednesday. He is now 4 months old and weighs 18 pounds (an increase of 6 pounds in a month!) Coincidentally on the morning of his appointment, I noticed a worm on his butt...ugh! So I brought it to the vet along with a stool sample and it showed he had tapeworms. He, along with Abby and Zakk were all treated. Otherwise, he is happy and healthy. It's been 14 years since I had a puppy, and now I realize how sedentary my dogs and I had become...LOL! Kobi is full of energy, loves to walk and really loves to run! Despite all of his toys, he prefers to bug his Daddy constantly since Abby is a less than willing play partner. He will be having surgery in Oct/Nov to remove his hind dew claws and to be neutered, and he has a follow-up with the opthamologist in November. I'm trying to decide on timing for the neutering. My previous vet (when Ozzi was a pup) felt that puppies should be neutered as soon as possible to "keep testerone from hanging around too long," and she neutered him at 4 months. Kobi's vet feels that he can be neutered at 5 months, but prefers to wait until 6 months because of anesthesia. She also said there are orthopedic benefits to waiting until 6 months, particularly in larger dogs. I have researched the right time to neuter and found many differing opinions and no clear answer. I was wondering what people here think...it always helps to hear the opinions of others, so if you have one, please post! Here's an updated pic of Kobi:



Thanks,
Kevin

[CoolGram]

Re: Kobi...Kevin's New Rescue

Hi Kevin,

I don't really have an answer to your question, although around here neutering at 6 months seems to be the norm. Of course I've always had female dogs and the vet would recommend spaying before the first heat cycle.

However, I just had to say how absolutely adorable Kobi is! That beautiful face is undeniable. Can't wait to see his "professional" photos!!

Carolyn

[buddingartist]

Re: Kobi...Kevin's New Rescue

What an absolutely adorable and expressive little face.

<You taking my picture daddy?> face is priceless.

The vet wouldn't neuter our Buddy before 6 months.

Louise

[Patty]

Re: Kobi...Kevin's New Rescue

Like you, I've found lots of differing opinions on the timing Kevin. Most vets seems to go with 6 months. Here are a couple of articles that talk about the benefits of waiting just a bit longer.

The sporting dogs article discusses some of the orthopedic issues you brought up: http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html

This second one talks about stress on the adrenals later as a potential theory: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites...neutering.aspx

BTW...Kobi is sooo adorable.

[ozzi]

Re: Kobi...Kevin's New Rescue

Thanks for links Patty! It's amazing that there are so many differing opinions about when to perform such a common surgery! You would think by 2010 this would be fairly standardized in the veterinary profession!
Kevin

[peggy0]

Re: Kobi...Kevin's New Rescue

That is interesting. i've never read these points of view. I thought for a female before the first heat and male as long as the testicles had dropped. It would be interesting to see when everyones pet was spayed or neutered. Forbin was neutered at 3 months. The rescue wouldn't let us take him unless he was neutered. It had no effect on his growth for sure.

[diggydog]

Re: Kobi...Kevin's New Rescue

Not sure when Alfie was done as he was a rescue and had been done before being surrendered but in the UK its mostly done at 6months.
I didn't get Skye spayed until she was 3 and only got her done as she was have problems with her heat cycles. I didn't plan on breeding from her but at the time I couldn't face her having to go for an operation, I had a lot going on emotionally when I first got Skye

If I had to do it over I would wait until around a year old unless I had to do it sooner.

[CarolW]

Re: Kobi...Kevin's New Rescue

On age at which to neuter ("neuter" includes "spay."

Kevin, and All,

Kevin, you're right that there are many different opinions about age at which to neuter; and for some, even whether to neuter at all.

I'm doing this from memory, which means, I'm unreliable, but here's my general impression at how people arrive at decisions about age at which to neuter. This summary is very one-sided, in the sense that my knowledge of history here is very limited.

However, I get this impression: people doing rescue tend to adhere to ideas based on the principle that there's severe "overpopulation" of dogs, resulting in the need for rescue, and they promulgate the idea that all dogs should be neutered, unless owned and destined for breeding (by reputable breeders, of course).

The idea of early neutering may well have come about from the rescue organizations, SPCA organizations, and so forth. Dogs and cats have been neutered sometimes extremely early; I can't remember HOW early, but sometimes, it's a matter of weeks! (or something over a month of age - that is, I read of a kitten spayed at something like 7 weeks - sorry I can't provide a link; don't remember where I read that).

In my readings, I saw remarks about kittens spayed so early hardy noticing - they recover so fast; running around in a few days, as though they'd never had surgery.

I don't remember reading such things about puppies, but it might (or might not) be similar.

About claims that early neutering has no effect - take with a grain - or a tablespoon - of salt. (Sorry, Peggy! - hard to tell WHAT effect Forbin might have had if neutered later than he was.)

Even Kumbi, neutered at 8.5 months, grew longer tibias than most of his breed (intact ones). Note, though, that Kumbi suffered CCL - cranial cruciate ligament rupture, in 2004 - rare in Australian Terriers.

Kwali had been spayed when I got her at the age of about 1.5 years. Probably spayed a little before she was 6 months old.

Camellia was spayed on 23 April, 2010 (born 4 March, 2007). So she was a bit over three when spayed.

My medical insurance on Camellia will cover mammary cancer if she gets it; I checked. So I need to keep an eye on things, so as to catch any such thing as early as possible.

Humane societies in general, along with the rescue organizations, REALLY urge neutering, based always on the "overpopulation" idea. And surely, it's just as much negligent human behavior that results in "overpopulation." Regardless, a neutered dog or cat cannot generate young of theri species (duh)

These concerns, seems to me, are general ones applying to entire populations. But our concerns, as Human DogParents, are for our OWN animal companions - and that is different from the kinds of theoretical concerns we might share in for an entire species.

Mon, 27 Sep 2010 07:34:55

Interrupted; back later

[pgcor]

Re: Kobi...Kevin's New Rescue

KEVIN - I can't offer much about neutering as my rescues were all neutered before they came to live with me! But I just had to post this - THAT'S THE CUTEST PUPPY EVER!!!! OMG! I wish I could come over and play!

Congratulations!

Pam

[CarolW]

Re: Kobi...Kevin's New Rescue

kevin - I'm back, to finish my post about neutering.

Here's a link I took very seriously; it made me reconsider WHETHER I would neuter another male dog if I were to get an intact one. Probably I would, as I think intact males probably suffer more around females in heat, if they can't reach them, than do neutered ones. Sopme people also seem unaware that dogs can tie through fences, and sometimes do.

Did you know that a neutered dog can tie with a female, if she will stand for him?

I hadn't known that, but certainly Kumbi, neutered and all, could have tied with Kwali, if she'd stand for him. Which she wouldn't. Haha!

I'm so short of sleep still that I'm mostly incompetent, and I haven't finished re-reading the link (read it some years ago) I'm including here, but will re-read it when I'm able. For now, I'll just provide the link!

http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html

The article purports to be for the canine athlete, but I'd surely use the information it contains for any dog.

I'm off for a long nap, and will be watching here when I can!

Love and hugs, licks and wags, to you, Abby, and Kobi!

Mon, 27 Sep 2010 14:48:06 (PDT)

[ozzi]

Re: Kobi...Kevin's New Rescue

Thank you Pam! I think he's the cutest puppy in the world, but I know I'm biased...LOL!

And thank you Carol for your thoughts! I had read that article, and I appreciate you posting it. I realize that there are pros and cons to neutering, and I'm committed to having Kobi neutered for potential behavioral and medical issues (mostly cancer) down the road. I'm just trying to figure out the best timing. It seems the general consensus is about 6 months, which is what my vet recommended as well.

Today I made an appointment for Kobi's neutering, back dew claw removals, and microchipping. He'll be having the surgery on November 23rd, the day after his follow-up with the opthamologist. So that will be a busy week with vet appointments and Thanksgiving!

Despite wanting to have all of this done, I'm already feeling sick about having to bring him in. I have been socializing him as much as possible and he's doing great, however he gets very nervous around a lot of noise, particularly dogs barking, and when I take him to the vet, he literally wraps his front legs around my arm and won't let go. He has an incredible locking grip! I'm worried about leaving him. I know he'll be fine, but I also know he'll be scared. I always feel this way when I have to leave my animals, but I feel extra "guilty" with Kobi because he's so young and because he's blind. I'll be glad when it's all over.
Kevin

[CarolW]

Re: Kobi...Kevin's New Rescue - age for neutering

Kevin - my vet refuses to neuter males till they are 7 months old. In general, she too recommends neutering for non-breeding males. And she'll spay small dogs from 5 months up, as often small dogs go into heat early.

But males, she likes to give that extra month to allow the urinary system more growth-time before she neuters. Since she's a specialist in Internal Medicine, and took highest honors (though by personal preference, she chose general practice, as she loves to work that way with humans and their companion animals), may I suggest you go along with her preferences, for Kobi? I think it would be better for him to wait that extra month.

Of course, you could have the hind dew claws and microchipping done at the same time.

Is Kobi tattooed?

I decided against microchipping for Camellia. She's not microchipped. It's quite common for microchips to migrate. And I was pointed to a web site that is very much opposed to microchipping, just the other day, which only, for me, confirms that my choice not to microchip does avoid occasional problems with microchips.

The site that opposes microchipping is certainly biased; makes no pretense not to be. On the other hand, the anecdotes there are, indeed, scary. I'll try to find the link; hang on.

Can't find it, and I'm falling asleep, so I'll try later. I didn't have Kwali nor Kumbi microchipped, either. I have a personal prejudice about those chips because they are objects foreign to the body.

Tue, 28 Sep 2010 00:31:20 (PDT)

[CarolW]

Re: Kobi...Kevin's New Rescue - anti-microchip site

I just HAD to pursue till I found this - finally, I did find the site that's anti-microchipping.

It's here:

http://www.chipmenot.org/

There ya go, Kevin!

Now, off to beddy-bye (I'll never catch up on sleep THIS way; haha!)

Love and hugs, with licks and wags from Camellia,

Tue, 28 Sep 2010 01:12:11 (PDT)

[peggy0]

Re: Kobi...Kevin's New Rescue

Hi Kevin

I know how you feel leaving Kobi given he will be frightened. Forbin go this way when he got sick. It always broke my heart, but he'll be fine and hopefully won't have to be left for a very LOOOONG time good luck with the visit Kevin.