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  #191  
Old 09-15-2009, 05:39 PM
pgcor pgcor is offline
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Default Re: Pip's Story

Okay, I looked and looked and finally found where I got the phosphorus information from. My old friend Carla told me about that.

Does anyone know a good kidney supplement to add to his food or how to cut down on protein in his diet? What do I replace it with?

I'm getting so old it's hard to remember what I've learned and now who I learned it from!

If anyone knows, I would appreciate it!
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  #192  
Old 09-17-2009, 08:11 PM
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forloveofandy forloveofandy is offline
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Default Re: Pip's Story

Pam how is Pip now? Is he still throwing up? Is it ok to give him some Pepcid AC? I remember a discussion with Carla about restricting protein because of kidney issues. She said it was not quantity but quality of the protein. We need to feed protein that is more digestible. I have Carla's email addy. I will send it to you in a private message.

This is an excerpt from Pet Education website.

Are high protein diets harmful to my dog's kidneys?

A. A rumor has been going around that high protein diets cause kidney disease. This rumor is false. High protein pet foods are NOT harmful to a normal animal's kidneys. As an animal's body digests and metabolizes protein, nitrogen is released as a by-product. The excess nitrogen is excreted by the kidneys. A high protein diet produces more nitrogen by-products and the kidneys simply excrete the nitrogen in the urine. While you may think this would 'overwork' the kidneys and lead to possible kidney damage, this is not true. The kidney's filtering capabilities are so great that even one kidney is sufficient to sustain a normal life. There are many pets - and humans - living perfectly healthy lives with just one kidney.
The myth that high protein diets are harmful to kidneys probably started because, in the past, patients with kidney disease were commonly placed on low protein (and thus low nitrogen) diets. Now, we often put them on a diet that is not necessarily very low in protein, but contains protein that is more digestible so there are fewer nitrogen by-products. These diet changes are made merely because damaged kidneys may not be able to handle the excess nitrogen efficiently. In pets with existing kidney problems, nitrogen can become too high in the bloodstream, which can harm other tissues.

Unless your veterinarian has told you your pet has a kidney problem and it is severe enough to adjust the protein intake, you can feed your pet a high protein diet without worrying about 'damaging' or 'stressing' your pet's kidneys. Also, you are not 'saving' your pet's kidneys by feeding a low protein diet.

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  #193  
Old 09-17-2009, 08:18 PM
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forloveofandy forloveofandy is offline
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Default Re: Pip's Story

Darn I could not find her private email addy. Must have deleted my old messages. You could send her a message on Yuku. Just click on one of her old posts. Not sure if she checks it anymore. I have not seen her in a long time.
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  #194  
Old 09-17-2009, 09:42 PM
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k9diabetes k9diabetes is offline
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Default Re: Pip's Story

As long as the phosphorus is in the normal range, even though it's on the high end, I wouldn't worry about it. Normal means just that so should not be an issue.

Those values are not extremely high either... does she feel it's a serious problem?

Chris' AlkP was around 250 just from his diabetes when he was first diagnosed and poorly controlled. Once his regulation improved, it came down into the normal range.

And his Bun/Urea in 2008 was 32-34 for a while in 2007-2008. At one point his BUN was 55. This was after an injection of Lasix.

They weren't particularly concerned about his kidney function since his urine was properly concentrated. The more we used Lasix, the diuretic for his heart disease, the worse his kidney values got. So we went to using it only sporadically if he was coughing and his kidney values improved.

I don't believe that any of these values are severely elevated.

How is he doing now?

Natalie
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  #195  
Old 09-18-2009, 08:08 AM
pgcor pgcor is offline
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Default Re: Pip's Story

Hi Natalie and Anne - Thanks for your responses!!!!!

I didn't want to contact Carla as I think she's quite busy with her practice now. Not much on line. We talked several months ago about a possible kidney supplement if his phosphorus levels kept rising. But Natalie, the Vet doesn't think there's an issue with his kidneys. She said what you said - the urine was properly concentrated. I just don't like those numbers consistently increasing.

The liver values took me by surprise as Pip has not had any issues with those since we added Sam-e to his diet. The Vet said we needed to watch those values - and to call her today and Monday and let her know how Pip is doing.

Pip hasn't thrown up since being on Clavamox, but he keeps waking me at around 3:30 to go outside. He urinates and then eats grass - so I think he still feels a little sick.

Having said that though - for some reason his face and general demeanor make me think he feels better. Just a feeling.
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  #196  
Old 09-18-2009, 09:23 PM
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k9diabetes k9diabetes is offline
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Default Re: Pip's Story

I hope you're right! It's good to hear that he seems better.

I have come to learn after a lot of lab tests that even slight elevations aren't usually a problem. It's when the numbers really start to climb that you have to worry.

Natalie
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  #197  
Old 09-19-2009, 05:53 AM
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ladysmom06 ladysmom06 is offline
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Default Re: Pip's Story

Hi Pam,

Quote:
Pip hasn't thrown up since being on Clavamox, but he keeps waking me at around 3:30 to go outside. He urinates and then eats grass - so I think he still feels a little sick.

Having said that though - for some reason his face and general demeanor make me think he feels better. Just a feeling.
Sorry that Pip hasn't been feeling well but glad to hear that he's feeling better. Hoping that he continues to improve each day. Hugs to the two of you.
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  #198  
Old 09-19-2009, 09:22 AM
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forloveofandy forloveofandy is offline
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Default Re: Pip's Story

Pam here is an article on protein and kidney, quality of protein etc.

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index....e=protein_myth
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  #199  
Old 09-20-2009, 07:03 AM
pgcor pgcor is offline
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Default Re: Pip's Story

Thanks Anne, Lynne & Natalie - Maybe I worry too much? I did know about the "old wive's tale" about protein and Pip does get homemade food. His protein source is white meat chicken. I just don't like the numbers going up...and when I charted the numbers they have been steadily rising since he was diagnosed. That is the BUN and creatinine numbers. His phosphorus numbers were up only on this last test.

But, Natalie - I get your point. He does have diabetes! The good news is that he does seem to be getting back to his old self. Sometimes I wish I would have gotten him into agility training - he is, by far, the fastest running dog I've ever had. When he feels good he races around the yard at a lightning pace, which is what he was doing last night. Yeah!
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  #200  
Old 09-20-2009, 08:06 PM
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eyelostit eyelostit is offline
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Default Re: Pip's Story

Hi Pam,

This is a good group, they are nice people and are up to date with canine kidney problems, they will no doubt want you to post your blood test results.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/K9KIDNEYS/

Dolly
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Dolly & Niki passed 2010, 45 lb Border Collie Mix 8 yrs as diabetic, 13yrs old. Blind N 10.5 U 2 X * Dog is God spelled backwards*If there are no dogs in Heaven then when I die I want to go where they went. Niki's food Orijen & Turkey & Gr. Beans, See you at the bridge my beloved & cherished Niki, I miss you everyday
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