Gretel is now our angel

[peggy0]

Re: Mini Schnauzer Gretel

He might have taken a nip. He poured a shot into the poinsettas!! worked like a charm

[janspack]

Re: Mini Schnauzer Gretel

Today I told the fellow who mows our grass that I didn't want him to spray any chemicals on the weeds. Now that I think about it, I can't believe I even briefly considered it, although I would have researched it thoroughly first. I'm sure most chemical companies will tell you it won't harm your animals after a certain period of time, but hey, they're in it to sell their products. We're the ones who are responsible for our pets.

Anyway, I feel better about it now. So now the worst that could happen to Gretel with regard to this issue is that she may eventually get lost in a tangle of weeds . But I am going to try the vinegar. I'll let you know how well it did or didn't work.

Carolyn

I haven't been able to maintain my back garden at all for the past year. The result is I have stinging nettles and brambles that are about 4 feet high! Not sure there is enough white vinegar in the UK to help me with these. Honestly, I'm not exaggerating. I've got to do something about them because I would like to turn it into a wild flower meadow. Once it is established, then it just needs a twice yearly trim with a lawn mower.

Not sure though if there is enough white vinegar in the World to cope with my back garden.

[CoolGram]

Gretel and regulation problems

Hello everyone,

It's been a very long time since I've posted, but now I find myself in a position where I need some advice. Up until recently Gretel has been doing pretty well overall. Even though she's had cataracts for quite a while, her vision was still not too bad until about 4 or 5 months ago when it really started to decline. As of now, I would say she's probably lost 3/4 of her vision and although she sometimes will see something that moves, she's beginning to bump into things which is so sad.

Several days ago she had a curve done at the vet and her low was all the way down to 73 and her high was 453. She has had periodic curves done, as well as spot checks when she's normally at her lowest BG, and never anything like this. It's just occurred to me that her vision so quickly declining and this erratic BG all seemed to happen within several months of her being switched over to Novolin from the Humulin.

She had been getting 12 units twice a day for probably 6 months. The vet had me drop her to 10 units, which I thought was too big a drop, but she said she was afraid of rebound. She'll do another curve next week. Yesterday she had me bring Gretel in for a spot check at the time when she's normally at her lowest and it was 235, which to me is awful for a low. The vet wasn't in yesterday but called in to find out the results and said at this point she wasn't too concerned and to leave her at 10 units till I bring her back in next week. I don't entirely understand the rebound effect, can someone explain it to me?

Oh, I almost forgot, Gretel was starting a UTI and is now on an antibiotic for that, so could the UTI have had such a drastic effect on her BG?

I asked the vet if she thought I should switch her back to Humulin even though I'll have to pay a lot more for it, but I'm willing to do it. She didn't seem to think it would make a difference, but I'm not convinced since she was doing so well on the Humulin for several years prior.

She also mentioned that another option would be to give insulin 3x a day instead of twice, but she said it would be very intrusive on my lifestyle. Again, if that's what it takes, I'm willing to do it. I'm retired and home every day.

Could someone please weigh in and tell me what you think of all this and what you would do if it were you?

Thank you for your help! Even though I haven't been posting for quite a while, I do visit from time to time and I really value all of your advice.

Carolyn

[farrwf]

Re: Gretel and regulation problems

I'd let the UTI / antibiotics run its course before making any moves. That could very well be the issue.

The Novolin and Humulin are basically the same. I suppose it's possible one could have to make a minor adjustment because of a switch, but it would probably be quite minor.

[Cebe]

Re: Gretel and regulation problems

I've noticed a difference with the Novolin. But, my budget simply doesn't allow me to return to humulin. I do believe that there are adjustments that can be made to account for the differences. For now, I've increased my dog's insulin (after doing curves), 14 units of novolin from the 12.5 of humulin I was giving.

But I agree that the novolin operates a little bit differently and adjustments need to be made for some dogs.

[Patty]

Re: Gretel and regulation problems

Hi Carolyn,
Good to see you here, though sorry Gretel is having issues. The UTI can change blood sugar patterns. Like Bill, I'd let the antibiotic run it's course before making major decisions on switching insulin.

Do you have her numbers from that last curve you could post?

The potential for rebound exists when a dog's blood sugar gets too low or when blood sugar drops very fast (such as 100mg/dL or more in an hour even if blood sugar isn't that low) and triggers an emergency response from the body to release glucose stored in the liver. I don't think it happens that often but certainly the potential exists.

There are dogs that are more sensitive to one NPH insulin over another. And some dogs don't get the same duration out of the two. It may be that she just needs a few tweaks with her food to balance things out again. But a curve would help determine that.

Hope the antibiotic helps clear her infection!
Patty

[Abby's Mom]

Re: Gretel and regulation problems

Hi Carolyn,

I would agree to let the antibotics finished, as the infection could give some wild numbers.

But my experience with the switch is sort of two fold. At first, I had to raise the dosage, as it appeared to not be as potent, and overall had some higher numbers. Then about 3 months AFTER the switch, I noticed some wild swings in BG. High fasting numbers, and low nadir numbers.... I did some jiggling with food/carb, but finally lowered the dose, and she has been having some steadier numbers.

Abby was on 6 units, and 5.5 seems to be working now.

Keep us posted.
Barb

[CoolGram]

Re: Gretel and regulation problems

Hello Everyone!

I'm needing some advice and am hoping some of you wonderful folks can help me. Gretel (almost 12 yr. old mini-schnauzer) has had her ups and downs lately, actually more downs than ups. Her vision loss is, I would say, almost total. Once in a while she might see a bit of movement on the ground but nothing more. She's had a hind leg problem recently,(curling her toes under) that is as yet undiagnosed but the vet suspects a nerve problem.

Currently I've been having a feeding problem with her and I'm at my wits end as to how to handle it. This is a problem that she has had previously, but nothing lasting this long. She's on w/d, a mixture of wet and dry. I also add Tricitrates solution mixed with a little water, and a fish oil capsule. Several months ago, she started to balk at eating in the morning. She would finally eat, but it might be up to an hour after I put the food down. Then I tried giving her just dry food, with nothing mixed in, and she ate that right down for a week or so, so it appeared she didn't want the things I was adding to her food - but she would eat it at the evening feeding without hesitation. So...sometimes she'll eat just dry, sometimes just wet. I tried adding some warm chicken broth for awhile and for maybe a week that worked and then it didn't any more.

With all of this trial and error it got later and later in the morning until she finally ate and until I could give insulin, which then made her evening meal later and later. Every day it's been something different, I never know when or even if she will eat in the morning.

My problem with it is what do I do about the insulin. I'm thinking that I should put her food down and give her a certain amount of time to eat it (maybe 1/2 hr.) and if she doesn't or if she only eats some of it, I then take the dish up and adjust her insulin dosage based on how much she ate. The question is - how do I decide how much???? I won't give her the full dose if she hasn't eaten everything because there's a possibility that she won't eat at all. But what should I give if she eats nothing? or half?

She currently is on 12-1/2 units of Novolin N. Her low bg's are normally between 150 and 170. Her highs upper 300's to upper 400's. Regardless of adjustments, this seems to be the best it gets.

I do have an appointment with the vet next week to go over all of these things with her, but I was wondering what advice I might get from any of you who might have experienced the same thing.

Oh, I have to be careful what I feed her because of bladder stone formation, so this seriously limits what I might be able to feed her. If it weren't for that, I would pick a good food that she really likes and go with that, but I can't.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. I haven't been on the site much lately but it sure is nice to know you're here when I need you.

Carolyn

[CarolW]

Re: Gretel and regulation problems

Hey, Carolyn! I haven't been here much either, but when I saw your name, I had to read! Kwali and Kumbi send their love from the Bridge, and Camellia and I, from here on Lowly Earth.

This business of reluctant eating seems to be a common theme here. I'm suspecting it's related in part to aging. I'm so far out of practice with diabetes, and now, even with aging dogs, that I don't think I can be seriously useful at this point. For a time, I kept Camellia on a diabetic-friendly schedule, Just-In-Case she might end up diabetic, and then, finally, since she's quite a fearful dog, I dropped that practice, to help me accommodate better to her needs. I find she eats somewhat irregularly; on the other hand, I still do "feed twice a day," though now she has kibble available all day - and night - and to my amazement, has begun to graze on it at odd hours. If I don't want her to do that, I'll have to pick it up

I'm simply suspecting that aging changes dogs somewhat, and surely discovering it can change ME somewhat too - and I can say, aging isn't for sissies (not my words). So it seems all I can do for the moment is wish you and Gretel well. I know a kind of formula has been used here in the past - if the dog eats half the breakfast, give half the normal insulin, if a quarter, give a quarter of the normal dose. If not at all, sometimes a quarter of the dose is given to maintain basal needs. I'm guessing that might work pretty well for Gretel. Now I'll just watch to see how things go for you two.

Love and hugs; so good to see you again! <3

[CoolGram]

Re: Gretel and regulation problems

Hello Carol! So nice to hear from you too! Actually, the main reason I hadn't posted of late was because I had log-in problems. Must have been something with my old computer because I recently got a new one, and no problems now.

I believe your suggestion is a good one and pretty much what I had been thinking also - in fact have been doing it pretty much that way for the last week or two. Prior to that, I waited her out until she finally ate it all (whatever time that might be) and then gave her a full dose of insulin. I have since decided not to give her an unlimited amount of time to eat because it throws feeding times way off, in fact so far off that I have found myself feeding her at 11:00 or so at night, which is entirely too late - both for her AND for me! The thing that baffled me was that in the morning she would eat - but only if I offered her just the right concoction, so it appeared she was hungry but was being picky. Anyway, I often lay awake at night thinking about what the plan will be for the morning feeding.

Anyway, I'm so glad you're still posting here, I have always valued your solid advice. All the best to you and Camellia.

Carolyn

[jesse girl]

Re: Gretel and regulation problems

my jesse only gets one meal a day and has done that for awhile . it appears a quarter of the normal dose without food seems good for jesse.

i am not sure if your home testing but if you are i would start with the quarter of the dose and maybe have numbers a bit higher than a normal fasting and see where it ends up to judge where things go

jesses reason for the one meal wasn't an eating issue but a digestive one

[Abby's Mom]

Re: Gretel and regulation problems

Hi Carolyn,

My Abby has been giving me some problems as well. I have been switching around her food (not really a good thing), but even so, it would seem that morning feedings are troublesome, but evening ones not soo much.

One day, she hardly ate at all, and I gave 1/4 of insulin dose, and made her wait till evening. She was hungry. So, like Carol, I would recommend cutting back the insulin, for the food consumption. If she is really turning her nose up to the food all together, perhaps some enticing toppers may get her going, such as tuna fish, which is mostly protein, but not any Carbs, to keep her curve relatively the same.

Good luck...

Barb

[CoolGram]

Re: Gretel and regulation problems

Thanks Barb and jesse girl for your responses. They helped confirm that what I've been trying hasn't been too far off the mark, and that I'm certainly not the only one who's experienced this.

I just think it's so odd that she's so snoopy in the morning but not at night. Now today she's eaten like she hasn't seen food in ages (including at breakfast), in fact tonight she scampered around and let me know she was hungry, whereas most times I have to wake her up to feed her. Just when I think I have her all figured out, I find I don't after all.

Never a dull moment, huh??

[CoolGram]

Gretel is now our angel

Hello friends,

With great sadness I must tell you that we lost our dear Gretel on Monday. Although she had quite a few health issues in addition to the diabetes, it was something very unexpected that took her.

We're not sure what happened, but over this last weekend, when she got up Sat. morning, she couldn't use her right rear leg. This had happened to the left rear leg in November but after several weeks it slowly improved. This time though, because her left leg was still weak, all she could do was drag herself using her front legs. In addition, she lost function of the bladder and bowels. She did have a disc problem in her back and also on x-ray it was found that her liver was enlarged, plus two more bladder stones had developed. All in all, not a good prognosis. Our wonderful vet gently guided me to make the decision that I never wanted to have to make. Now begins the process of healing from this devastating loss.

I want to thank all of you for being so supportive of Gretel and me over these past few years, I don't know how I would have gotten through this without you.

I wish all of you all the best with whatever challenges you may face and know that I'll be thinking about you.

Carolyn

[drmvz]

Re: Gretel is now our angel

Very sorry for your great loss.
Mike