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Chewy-newly diagnosed, no appetite

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  • #16
    Re: Chewy-newly diagnosed, no appetite

    Originally posted by eyelostit View Post
    Hi Catherine,

    I know this can affect ones mood, boy do I !!

    Did the vet do a curve or take one blood draw? I think with Chewy's bg reading at the vet it would be a great help to you if you would consider to home test Chewy, I'm thinking this because of the excess urination you had after the insulin increase but maybe that will stop later today, fingers crossed.

    He did do a blood draw yesterday and it was still really really high. Over 400 again. I agree about the insulin. His drinking has calmed down some and he hasn't had an accident in the house today. Still lethargic, but he was showing that he was hungry around 4 pm. He'll be fed again around 6:30 to keep within the 12 hour thing. I'm hoping that that helps. It's amazing to me that just that TINY increase in insulin (but then again, when you are only 9 lbs, that might be a lot) can trigger such a response again. Sooo, hopefully he'll have a good week if he eats tonight and gets his insulin and sort of gets used to that amount.
    Thanks again! We will start hometesting next week, I believe. That's where we'll learn how to use the equipment, etc. I have no idea right now how any of this works. Boo!

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    • #17
      Re: Chewy-newly diagnosed, no appetite

      Maybe stress put his blood sugar way high after the vet appointment.

      Three units is still a pretty low dose for 9 lb dog... a curve would really help sort out where Chewy is at with all this.

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      • #18
        Re: Chewy-newly diagnosed, no appetite

        Hi Catherine,

        Surprising what a teeny wee bit of insulin will do !!
        Dolly & Niki passed 2010, 45 lb Border Collie Mix 8 yrs as diabetic, 13yrs old. Blind N 10.5 U 2 X * Dog is God spelled backwards*If there are no dogs in Heaven then when I die I want to go where they went. Niki's food Orijen & Turkey & Gr. Beans, See you at the bridge my beloved & cherished Niki, I miss you everyday

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        • #19
          Re: Chewy-newly diagnosed, no appetite

          Originally posted by k9diabetes View Post
          Maybe stress put his blood sugar way high after the vet appointment.

          Three units is still a pretty low dose for 9 lb dog... a curve would really help sort out where Chewy is at with all this.

          That is really good advice. I will ask the vet how to go about that this week. Hopefully he'll be versed enough in it to know what to do.

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          • #20
            Re: Chewy-newly diagnosed, Update

            I just wanted to post a quick update. Chewy seems to be doing a bit better now. He's currently working on five units of Vetsulin 2x a day and it seems to be curbing the excessive water consumption and he's had fewer accidents although we are taking him out ALL the time to go wee. Anyway, he does seem to be putting back on a bit of weight, which is good, considering how small he is anyway. I'll keep updating as Chewy progresses. Thanks to EVERYONE who replied. What a wonderful, supportive group.

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            • #21
              Re: Chewy-newly diagnosed, Update

              Originally posted by catters View Post
              Thanks to EVERYONE who replied. What a wonderful, supportive group.
              Anytime

              I'm so happy things are better, if Chewy has slowed down on his water thats a good sign.
              Dolly & Niki passed 2010, 45 lb Border Collie Mix 8 yrs as diabetic, 13yrs old. Blind N 10.5 U 2 X * Dog is God spelled backwards*If there are no dogs in Heaven then when I die I want to go where they went. Niki's food Orijen & Turkey & Gr. Beans, See you at the bridge my beloved & cherished Niki, I miss you everyday

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              • #22
                Re: Chewy-newly diagnosed, no appetite

                Yay!!!!!!!! I LOVE good news!!!!

                Natalie

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                • #23
                  More On Chewy...

                  Ugh, well, things are getting weirder now with my poor Yorkie. His blood glucose is THROUGH THE ROOF! His eating and drinking seems sort of normal, but he is on NINE units of Vetsulin. At his curve, his blood glucose never went down after his insulin and he was in the 400's. This thursday... he was in the 700's!!!! My husband has a sneaking suspicion something else is wrong. We go back again to the vet this coming thursday and if the nine units aren't helping him, then they think he'll need a different insulin. CRAZY!!!! Anyway, it seems just really foreboding that the insulin isn't helping. And even though I had my baby last week (via c-section too! ) we haven't missed ONE dose, nor has he eaten at weird times or anything. This is craziness. My poor doggie. Anyway, I'll update. Thanks again for all the support.

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                  • #24
                    Re: More On Chewy...

                    From what I've learnt in the few months I've had a diabetic dog and from doing a lot of reading, I believe that some dogs do need or do better on, a different type of insulin. If you go to the website associated with this forum, there are some case histories on there (including that of Kathy's dog) which illustrates this very well.

                    I wonder though if he is getting what is called rebound? This happens if in fact, their blood sugar goes a bit too low and then the body releases stores of sugar from (I think) the liver so the BG goes high. Dazzle had this once at the start of treatment. If you don't check the BG when it is at that low, then it's easy to think they aren't getting enough insulin so it is then increased which perpetuates the situation.

                    When did he last have a curve done? This would hopefully show if this is the case or not.

                    The fact that he is off his food is strange and is what makes me wonder about this because normally, a dog with high BG is ravenously hungry.

                    I'm not very experience yet so I may have got this all wrong. I know someone will correct me very soon if I have.
                    Jan & Dazzle (Border Collie aged 12 yrs) dx 06th February 2009. Dx Hypothyroid 12th July 2011. 6 units am & 5 units pm for this week - still trying to get her back on track. Soloxine 0.4 mgs once a day.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Chewy-newly diagnosed, no appetite

                      I don't know when Chewy last had some bloodwork done, but I'd consider having that along with urine.

                      Those with diabetes or any other endocrine problem are more prone to infections that those without them. Often, there is a hidden or occult infection, which is there but isn't able to be seen under normal testing; the only sign of it you might be getting are the high bg's.

                      Sometimes it turns out that you need a culture to find the source of the infection and/or the best antibiotic for treating it.

                      It's also possible that Chewy may have other endocrine problems such as Cushing's which could be the reason for such high bg's.

                      Chewy may do better on NPH because of these reasons:

                      NPH insulin in the US is GE human insulin; human insulin is one amino acid match away from canine insulin, while pork insulin is a perfect match for it. Changing the species of insulin results in the production of antibodies, which are not always a terrible thing unless they're present in enough quantity to make the insulin useless. Some antibody reaction makes the insulin last longer:

                      http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Con...1605&SourceID=

                      Veterinary Partner--The Hard to Regulate Diabetic Pet

                      "When a patient is treated with insulin from another species, the immune system recognizes the introduction of the foreign protein and generates antibodies. It was because of this phenomenon that most commercial insulin available is genetically engineered human insulin so that the world's human diabetics no longer need to worry about making insulin antibodies.

                      "But where does this leave dogs and cats? It leaves them making antibodies against human insulin, that's where.

                      "One would think this would pose a big problem, but in fact insulin antibodies are not always bad. Most of the time the antibodies simply interfere with removal of the insulin. leading to a longer acting insulin than would be achieved with the same type of insulin made from the native species. For example, Humulin L (human insulin) will last longer in the dog than Canine Insulin L. This may be desirable depending on the patient; changing the species of origin of the insulin is one way to get the insulin to last a bit longer.

                      "To become insulin resistant from antibodies, one must lose 70% or more of the insulin injection to antibody binding. This is very unusual but possible and should not be forgotten as a possible cause of insulin resistance. Blood tests to measure insulin antibodies are available in some areas. Insulin can be switched to a species of origin more closely related to the species desired."

                      There's also a difference in the duration of the insulin according to its strength; U 40 (Vetsulin) starts working faster, peaks faster, and leaves the body faster than the comparable U 100 pork Lente Lilly used to make, Iletin II Lente:

                      http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Du...on_By_Strength

                      What Jan has told you about Somogyi rebound, where the bg's hit a low and then rapidly bounce back upward into the terribly high numbers might also be a factor:

                      http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Somogyi_rebound

                      Getting a curve done for Chewy would rule this one in or out. If Chewy's getting 9 units of insulin twice a day and weighs the 9 pounds you mentioned in your first post, I'd say it could well be he's rebounding from too much insulin.

                      So we have a lot of "could be" problems here. Hope the Thursday appointment will tell us what Chewy needs next.

                      Kathy

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                      • #26
                        Re: Chewy-newly diagnosed, no appetite

                        Congratulations on the birth of your baby!

                        That is no mean feat keeping Chewy's schedule with all you've got going on.

                        Glad to hear Chewy will see the vet. Take him in sooner if he acts listless or vomits or won't eat.

                        Are you checking for ketones with urine strips?

                        Natalie

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