Former Foster Dog Phee

[ABCisMe]

Re: Former Foster Dog Phee

Bloodwork all came back normal. Even his glucose was good at 195. Just gotta keep going and make it work somehow!

[ABCisMe]

Re: Former Foster Dog Phee

SO, the vet just emailed me the bloodwork (a different vet called me yesterday and didn't give me details, just said all was normal). I'm looking at the bloodwork and am not very happy. My vet said not to be concerned about the triglycerides or amylase, but wouldn't high triglycerides cause trouble controlling glucose? or would the poor glucose control be causing the high triglycerides? and would low amylase be indicative of EPI?

[ABCisMe]

Re: Former Foster Dog Phee

Here's his bloodwork from 6 months ago:

[k9diabetes]

Re: Former Foster Dog Phee

Just have a moment and am having to type from my phone. From a quick glance the off values are off by only a small amount. The triglyceride elevation is very small.

[ABCisMe]

Re: Former Foster Dog Phee

They're 200 points higher than they were 6 months ago though. I'm thinking that might account for his need for more insulin..? Or would it be the other way around - that poor glucose control caused his triglycerides to rise? I just want to nip it in the bud before it gets any worse, that's all.

[amydunn19]

Re: Former Foster Dog Phee

Have you tried fish oil ? I have always heard it will lower triglycerides. My dog's food has it already in the recipe so I don't add it. I used to get the salmon oil or pollock oil and squirt on their food when they ate another brand.

[ABCisMe]

Re: Former Foster Dog Phee

6 months ago he was on a salmon kibble. I think that may have been why his triglycerides were so good. I ordered some salmon oil this afternoon and am going to see if that helps get his triglycerides back to where they were.

[Rubytuesday]

Re: Former Foster Dog Phee

Hi Angel, I think the only way to darter mine if it EPI is to do a TLi test. It is best to test then for b12 deficiency also.

You might want to check over at epi4dogs for anything else you might need to know before testing.

I read in one of Antonia's posts (Eddie's thread) that Eddie was neg. for EPI, but enzymes helped so they kept giving them.

I think if you wanted to try some enzymes Olesia at epi4dogs could send you some to try. I have read of people trying them before having the test run.

Tara

[Eddie]

Re: Former Foster Dog Phee

Yes - Tara is right. Eddie had all the symptoms of EPI but tested negative for it. We gave him enzymes anyway (vet didn't think they would do any harm if they were unnecessary) and the results were dramatic. He had lost a huge amount of weight, his coat was awful and his tail very thin. Poops were semi-liquid and the smell could fell you at 20 paces! Also oily stuff round his back end (oil not being digested so going straight through) and enormous appetite.

All of that was sorted out by giving him enzymes and B12 injections. B12 is critical for EPI dogs.

It might well be worth trying some. the poop improvement happened very quickly for Eddie, and if we omit enzymes they deteriorate again after about 24 hours (when I thought I would check if he really still needed them - he does!).

If you have the normal enzymes, you need to "incubate" them in the food first. We used to soak Eddie's food till it was soft then leave the enzymes on it for at least an hour so they start pre-digesting it before you feed it. If you just sprinkle it on and feed straight away then the enzyme is destroyed in the stomach and can't do any good. There is another sort which we now use (a human one called Creon or dog one called Lypex) which you do just sprinkle on because it is coated with something that survives the stomach acid. (we weren't told any of this stuff at first!)

Antonia

[ABCisMe]

Re: Former Foster Dog Phee

Yes, vet said amylase is actually usually normal in EPI dogs and she would have to do that TLi test to confirm. She said she's happy to do that if I want.

We've been doing 3-1/2 units and now he's having very low numbers. He was 48 yesterday afternoon an hour before his dinner. So I fed him then and waited an hour for his number to come up. Took an hour to get to mid 100's. I reduced to 3 units and he was still only 81 this morning. So 3-1/2 is too much, but 3 is not enough.

I waited 1/2 hour this morning until his number was 123 and gave him only 2-1/2 units. He's been in the low 200's so far this morning.

I'll be honest, I'm not sure where to go with his insulin.

Here are some numbers on 3-1/2 units:

6/3
5:30 - 531 - FOOD + 3-1/2
11:00 - 585
5:30 - 438 - FOOD + 3-1/2

6/4
5:30 - 497 - FOOD + 3-1/2
8:45 - 437
3:30 - 414
5:30 - 576 - FOOD + 3-1/2
9:00 - 150

6/5
5:30 - 253 - FOOD + 3-1/2
7:40 - 424
12:15 - 376
5:30 - 224 - FOOD + 3-1/2
7:40 - 350

6/6
5:30 - 238 - FOOD + 3-1/2
7:45 - 498
2:45 - 516
5:30 - 314 - FOOD + 3-1/2
8:30 - 148

6/7
5:30 - 395 - FOOD + 3-1/2
6:30 - 430
8:30 - 302
9:30 - 304
11:30 - 117
12:30 - 147
5:30 - 81 - FED + Waited 1/2 hour for shot
6:00 - 197 - 3-1/2 units
7:30 - 222
9:00 124

6/8
5:30 - 97 - FED + Waited 1/2 hour for shot
5:45 - 126
6:00 - 313 - 3-1/2 units
8:00 - 441
10:00 - 322
4:30 - 48 - FED + Waited 1 hour for shot
5:00 - 66
5:30 - 132 - 3 units (reduced from 3-1/2)
6:45 - 208
9:00 - 84 - Gave a handful of kibble

6/9
5:30 - 81 - FED + Waited 1/2 hour for shot
6:00 - 137 - 2-1/2 units (reduced from 3 units)
6:15 - 242
7:30 - 256

I'm thinking I need to go back to 3 units and let him level off. Then maybe do 3 units N and 1/2 unit R. I think that R keeps him from going higher throughout the day and wears off before the afternoon so he doesn't bottom out. Keep on chugging along I guess..

[ABCisMe]

Re: Former Foster Dog Phee

Just an update on Phee... We switched back to Nature's Variety Instinct salmon kibble. Saw an immediate drop in his insulin needs. He's currently on 2.5 units of N + 0.5 units R in the morning and 3 units of N at night. His fasting numbers have been in the low-mid 200's. His numbers during the day have been anywhere from mid-100's to mid-200's. It's been fantastic!

Unfortunately, even though this food only has 3.5% fiber, he's been having poop control issues. He's been pooping in his sleep. Ugh. We went this morning for a fasting blood test to rule out any EPI issues. Hopefully we'll have that info by the end of the week. If EPI is ruled out, I'll just deal with the poop and put a diaper on him at night. I would rather deal with the poop incontinence than screw up his blood sugar again!

[jesse girl]

Re: Former Foster Dog Phee

thats odd with pooh at night . no urinating . my jesse has seizures which will have her pooh during .

i use to find it in the house when she was younger and would get upset at her when i got home but when i saw her seizure for the first time i felt very guilty for being upset at her .

yes i could deal with the pooh thing having much better blood sugar . if the poohs are in good shape then you probably don't have to worry about epi

[ABCisMe]

Re: Former Foster Dog Phee

No urinating. His pee has been totally normal. The poop is not only at night. It's anytime he's asleep or very relaxed. Sometimes he'll be laying on the couch and just have poop fall out. He doesn't even seem to realize it's happening. If it's not maldigestion, then I don't know what the heck would be causing it. I do know it's MUCH worse the more fiber he gets. When he was on a food with 6% fiber, the poop would just fall out all the time. He'd be walking and plop! a poop would drop out.. an entire log would come out during a nap. It was horrible! At least on the lower fiber, it's usually only a small amount of poop.. he did have a full BM overnight two nights ago. So gross.

[jesse girl]

Re: Former Foster Dog Phee

oh my . just no control but has control with urination . yes the fiber will produce more . sounds like they are fully formed so you would think everything is working well internally. you wonder if there is any feeling down there like people with spinal problems . how old is phee ?

[ABCisMe]

Re: Former Foster Dog Phee

I was thinking maybe neuropathy of some sort. He has had long periods of no trouble at all though. We're not sure exactly how old he is, but he's definitely young... probably between 4-6.