My Sweet Bagel in Heaven now..

[peggy0]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

Yes I do. I check before i give forbes his shot, twice a day and if he's 'off' high or low, i spot check

[ladysmom06]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

Hi Sande,

Do you all check blood every day?????????

When Lady was first dx I had the vet do curves twice a month. When we started treating the cushing's I finally learned how to test her. After she became regulated I only did a fasting am and pm and spot checks now and then. I would do a curve once a month or if I thought something was off.

[pgcor]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

Hi Sande - Nice to "see" you all are doing better. Usually diabetic dogs want more water when their blood sugar is too high. You'll see on Thursday how Bagel is doing. Good luck Sande!

Pam and Pip

[Bagel's Mom]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

Had a chat with the vet tonight...He has been in touch with a network of 1800 Vets who commensurate........... they still are basically pulling for Vetsulin b/c it is the most similar to dog insulin, being porcine derived.....

I brought up the what if I dropped and broke a bottle and he reminded me I have his home number and always can call him...
hard to beat that...

for now...being as how I am such a novice and Bagel is doing so well, I will trust him...
He said about once a week on the testing BG when the curve testing is done...
They had a pen-like instrument that pricked her inner ear..( basset/beagle) big ears...Is that a good tool?

He said that her ear was a good place for getting a drop...I told him I had been watching You Tube videos on blood testing for dogs..
oh dear....
anyway... We have only been at this since last Thursday..so I am learning.
She is doing well..I need to study a lot...
I sure am glad you guys are here!!
Sande

[AlisonandMia]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

I used chicken broth..sorry....low fat low sodium..She picks around the corn thankfully and I removed the potato and carrot chunks...
I put the soup mixture in her kibble..

Have you checked the ingredients on the chicken broth? Most broths made for human consumption contain onion, or onion powder or onion juice as it makes it taste good. I've yet to see a commercial chicken broth or stock that doesn't contain onion in some form. Unfortunately onion in appreciable amounts is toxic to dogs (and even more so for cats) and can cause a type of hemolytic anemia, which can be fatal. So do check that label before giving any more to Bagel. It's quite easy to make your own onion-free chicken broth.

Alison

PS: Is your vet aware of the looming supply problem regarding Vetsulin? It is looking almost certain that at some point in the not-to-distant future you will no longer be able to obtain Vetsulin and will be forced to use another insulin. Presumably it will eventually come back onto the market in the US but it may be unavailable for six months or even longer. It seems that vets have not necessarily been informed of this by either the FDA or the manufacturers of Vetsulin.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

It's too bad so many vets are so enamored with using the porcine insulin. In the years I've seen it used, I've seen the molecular match of the insulin molecule create as many problems as it has solved.

There are quite a few dogs who process Vetsulin too quickly. This is most likely a combination of the molecular match and the U40 concentration.

Dogs just don't seem to build meaningful resistance to the human molecule except in rare instances. Plus I think generally they do better with the more concentrated U100 solution... I wish Vetsulin had gone U100.

Combine all that with the additional expense and volume of liquid you have to inject in larger dogs and there's a lot on the positive side for NPH.

For as long as the supply lasts, you can stick with Vetsulin but do absolutely have at least one to two backup bottles set aside for emergencies - have the vet order them right away and give them to you to hold in the refrigerator.

One argument I would make for switching now is the possibility that NPH doesn't work for your dog. If you find that out now, you can stockpile a large amount of Vetsulin to ride out the supply shortage. If you wait until Vetsulin can't be had and then find out NPH won't work... well, that's not a good situation.

Natalie

[k9diabetes]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

Understandably, vets use the ear so they and their techs don't get bitten in the process. But other spots in dogs are usually easier to test as dogs' ears don't always bleed all that readily.

On the lip the clickers usually work well. We always used one with Chris. On paw pads or the back at the base of the tail, the skin is thicker and often you need to lance those areas by hand.

Best clicker I've ever used is the Softclix by Accuchek - I hated the ones that came with the other meters.

Natalie

[Bagel's Mom]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

WOW..
Allison, yes I did check that broth and even though it is listed as a last ingredient, there was the onion concentrate...Anyway the stew I made was also watered down and it is long gone...So today's batch will be ground turkey and other green goodies and whole wheat pastas..NO chicken broth...

Bagel is a challenge all the way around..The Urinary SO food is pure corn....and she was on it for 3 months to break up a stone and keep her urine dilluted....so that is out now- she didn't like it anyway...

Best choice now when she gets regulated sounds like Purina DM...and some home cooking...

I am at a huge disadvantage to argue the vetsulin vs NPH since I have no clue what I am talking about. I'm only six days away from the initial shock of last Thursday's diagnosis... no diabetes experience in family or animals and I have had a zillion in my lifetime.
My vet's credentials are regionally and nationally known and he is always going to a new conference or speaking at one himself...They have been in touch with the Vetsulin company this week and aware of changes being made and coming...I think with the stress and newness of it I just have
to put my trust in his decisions and his cohorts, and keep my prayer life strong as well...

As for sticking- wow..She has always HATED having her feet touched in any way so that is out. It usually takes me and two techs to hold her for a nail trim.
She has long ears and likes them stroked...prob not if start sticking them...
gums? She doesn't like her mouth messed with either...Elbow maybe?
That will be the newest challenge...
Today I am thankful that we slept all night long and I don't
have school today! and ican spend it with her all day long!
Thanks all of you...I am learning....
S

[k9diabetes]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

Paw pads would have been out for Chris. He was almost impossible to nail trim. He wasn't crazy about mouth handling but wasn't upset by it the way he was about his feet and he adjusted pretty easily to the lip prick. There are few nerve endings there and most dogs tolerate it really well.

You might consider the back at the base of the tail. I think most people using that method shave a little patch and sometimes use vasoline to keep the blood drop from spreading through the hair. There is a picture tutorial at www.k9diabetes.com/bgtestvideos.html.

Usually you have to lance by hand there as well.

As long as you make sure you have a backup bottle or two, you will have time to deal with the insulin change problem if it comes up.

No matter what you vet says, I wouldn't rely on him to keep a backup bottle for you. Get an extra one and tuck it in the back of the fridge. There are lots of ways it would come in handy.

We always kept some of the previous bottle as a backup for a bad bottle of insulin (can happen in extreme weather during shipping) or if we broke one.

If the vet balks, ask him to indulge you so you sleep better at night not having to worry about breaking a bottle of insulin late some Saturday night. It should not be a big deal to give you an extra bottle now when supplies are not a problem.

Natalie

[Bagel's Mom]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

He will let me get another bottle I am sure..
...
How do you know when you get a bad bottle?
and how long does it keep?

Is tomorrow a rough day for her? In at 7:30 and out at 6...

She was hungry today...I cooked some ground turkey and gave her a little bit and then she is napping...

I am practicing by playing with her lip..She doesn't like it much but if it wouldn't hurt there it might do....
but she does have TWO ears and he said prob test weekly???

oh well am sure I will know more tomorrow..

[k9diabetes]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

I always figured a curve at the vet was more dull than traumatic. Lots of sitting around in a kennel in between tests. Some vets test by drawing blood from a vein. Others use the ear.

You know you have a bad bottle when the blood sugar suddenly shoots up - back to drinking lots of water and urine and blood strongly positive for glucose if you're testing.

Insulin is temperature sensitive so too much heat or too much cold and it can be destroyed. Like if it's left sitting in a box on a loading dock in freezing temperatures.

Anecdotally, I have heard many people say that a bottle of Vetsulin once in use does not hold its potency for more than 25-30 days. But others have been able to extend its use longer. I am not sure what makes the difference - could be handling by the supplier, handling at home as far as storage, and how well you mix it before each injection.

It lasts the longest if kept in the door of the refrigerator with the bottle upright to keep the crystals from getting stuck on the rubber stopper.

I have seen chihuahuas tested on the lip so size isn't necessarily an issue in terms of where to test. Frequency just depends on the dog and the owner. We have some folks who only rarely test, once a month or less. Other who test once a week, some who test once a day, and some who test multiple times a day.

A lot will depend on how Bagel's food and insulin are working, which you will find out with the curve. When the difference between highest and lowest blood sugar is small, it's easier to test rarely.

Once the curve is done, ask the vet for the numbers for each test and post them here. We can take a look and see how things seem to be coming along.

Natalie

[Bagel's Mom]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

OK WOW that was very helpful!!!!

I am looking online here and reading about glucometers...

I found the One Touch Ultra 2 for a great deal on ebay and also Amazon..Was reading that it was a good one...
any advice there?
thanks!!

[Bagel's Mom]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

anybody seen the Ipet monitor for cats and dogs? video is great!!

[k9diabetes]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

I LOVE the OneTouch Ultra.

I have some reservations about the iPet as I have seen some folks get inconsistent readings from it.

A human meter will be a lot cheaper over the long run as the strips are less expensive.

Personally I always recommend starting with a human meter and then, when you're proficient at testing, if you want to go to a meter meant for pets, do it then.

[ladysmom06]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

Hi Sande,

I found the One Touch Ultra 2

We used that one and I really liked it.

Good luck with the curve tomorrow and please let us know how it goes. Hugs to you and Bagel.