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Well we were informed last friday that our oldest dog of 3 (13 years) has diabetes. Here we go. The vet gave us enough shots for a week. 7 units each once a day. He seems better. I have ordered an alphatrak II. I'm stopping on the way home to pick up a human glucometer until the other one arrives by the end of the week. I will just be using it to monitor now not track and dose. My wife is a nurse so she is doing the shots etc. I've been reading a lot. Looks like this forum is helpful. His name is Bandit. 15 lbs.
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Re: Fox Terrier with diabetes
Welcome to you and Bandit. With a nurse wife, you are already one step ahead.
Your vet only gave you 7 days worth of insulin? Do you know what kind he is prescribing?
In general, you can get insulin at Walmart for a pretty good price, so keep that in mind.
Hope things go well for you and Bandit. Glad you found us.Zoe: 12 yr old Black Lab/shepherd mix. Diagnosed 6/1/11. Currently on 15 units Novolin NPH 2x day, and hopefully as close to regulated as possible. Feeding merrick Grain Free Salmon and Sweet Potato. Weight 63lbs. -
Re: Fox Terrier with diabetes
Hi and welcome to you!Originally posted by randyddowns View Post
Glad to hear you have a meter on the way. That will be very helpful in regulating Bandit.
I did want to comment on the starting dose. Typically the starting dose for dogs is about 20% of their body weight. At 15lbs, that would be 3 units twice a day. I'm concerned about the starting dose at more than twice that and only once a day. What type of insulin did the vet start you on? NPH insulin is I believe the most widely used in the US and lasts about 12 hours.
If you do experience a low blood sugar event, I'd keep some honey, karo syrup or regular pancake syrup available as I'm sure you know. You can always rub some on his gums if he's not able to take it.
Look forward to hearing more about Bandit.
PattyPatty and Ali 13.5yrs 47lbs diagnosed May '08 Ali earned her wings October 27, 2012, 4 months after diagnosis of a meningioma ~ Time is precious ~Comment
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Re: Fox Terrier with diabetes
Welcome to you and Bandit. I agree with Patty. The 7 units may end up being needed, or even more, but as you know you must avoid hypoglycemia. Hope you get the meter today and get a few readings.
Craig & AnnieAnnie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9½ years.Comment
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Re: Fox Terrier with diabetes
The vet is doing a follow up Friday. Not sure what type of insulin. I know he was above 500 when checked last Friday. He is a hyper little turkey so after my wife gets home we are going to have to double team him to get a sample. I checked it on myself to make sure it works and I was 84. We have 3 dogs. One male Jack Russell by the name of Patch, and one female Jack by the name of cookie. We got her from a kill shelter. I know why too. We have had her about a year. All dogs are fixed...or broken... They all sleep with my wife of 35 years (Alta) and I in a king size bed. We live in the country on 12 acres. Patch is the best mole dog I have ever seen. He will stand and watch for the ground to move and then nail it. Love the dogs. They are all unique. I see that Novo N is in wide use on this forum. We will probably talk to the Vet after we do some checking on his sugar level this week with the human meter. I really want to use it to get a rough estimate on how he is doing until we get the Alphatrak II. It shipped today from vetapprovedrx.. Thanks everyone...Comment
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Re: Fox Terrier with diabetes
What brand meter are you using? Human meters "usually" read dog blood a little low, so that 84 is likely closer to 100ish. Concerned this doesn't give you much leeway, chances are you didn't test at the lowest time. I'd really suggest you test again and be sure the numbers are going up.
CraigAnnie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9½ years.Comment
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Re: Fox Terrier with diabetes
Oops, just re-read and saw it was YOU that was 84! MOST EXCELLENT BG for a human!Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9½ years.Comment
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Re: Fox Terrier with diabetes
Hi,
That is too large of a starting dose for a dog Bandit's size. Most dogs never need 1/2 of a unit per pound. I do not think it is safe to give him 7 units at once and would cut back to 3 units at most.
It is always better to start with less insulin than you think the dog will need and work UP slowly. I might even start a 15 pound dog at 2 units.
There also basically isn't any insulin available / good for dogs that works once a day so you will need to go to 2 injections soon.
NatalieComment
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Re: Fox Terrier with diabetes
Bandit was 503 on the human meter. Will check around 9pm which will be 2 1/2 after his injection. I agree 2 shots are needed. Now that we have a meter we can see the effect. I'll be glad to get the Alphatrak II to compare. No luck getting blood from his ears. Couldn't get him to hold still on the lip either. Got it from the foot pad. Not sure if this is good. My wife is off tomorrow and she will call the vet and see what he is getting. Also talk to him about the Novo N. He does seem better with the 7 units in the evening. I agree 2 is needed to keep it out of the 500's..Comment
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Re: Fox Terrier with diabetes
Glad you've been able to get a reading. It's possible if you are giving the one injection at night that without insulin during the day Bandit is going high, then the large dose drops him sharply at some point during the night.
I would read the link on Somogyi rebound http://www.caninediabetes.org/pdorg/somogyi.htm A large dose of insulin can cause the body to release stored glucose into the blood stream and elevate blood sugar. Eventually the body's reserves can be tapped out and the dog suffers severe hypoglycemia.
"When the blood glucose becomes too low, the body's natural defense mechanism is to release glucagon and several other hormones into the blood. The overall effect of these hormones is to increase the blood glucose. Glucagon causes the liver to rapidly release large amounts of stored glucose into the blood stream. After all this glucose is released into the blood, the animal can become hyperglycemic (high blood glucose). The other hormones involved in this protective mechanism act to keep the blood glucose elevated for a longer period of time.
Because Somogyi involves several other hormones that have a longer duration of action than glucagon, the hyperglycemia caused by a Somogyi may last for several days and you may see insulin resistance. This can make diagnosing somogyi difficult."
This large dosing once a day used to be recommended to the veterinary community by the manufacturers of Vetsulin when it was on the market in the US. They finally switched to twice daily dosing at a much safer level. They found the insulin didn't last anywhere near 24 hours and dogs were having unsafe drops in blood sugar.
Glad your wife will be home tomorrow and can check in with the vet. I'd look at 2 or 3 units twice a day for a more even response to start.
Take care!
PattyPatty and Ali 13.5yrs 47lbs diagnosed May '08 Ali earned her wings October 27, 2012, 4 months after diagnosis of a meningioma ~ Time is precious ~Comment
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Re: Fox Terrier with diabetes
Thanks much Patty. His BG was 133 last night at 9. The vet filled 10 syringes with 7 units each and sent them home with my wife. He is an old school vet. Mostly farm animals. We are going to cut the dose to 2.5 units and give it at 6am and 6pm. Then this weekend we are going to pick up a vial of Relion n. We should have the AlphaTrakII by Fri. I can compare the 2 meters. Bandit has been a good dog for 13 years and we would like to have him for this next gardening season. This morning at 5:30 his bg was 379. This weekend is when we will do the switch of insulins so we can watch him.Comment
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Re: Fox Terrier with diabetes
Hey There, I haven't had a chance to welcome you yet. Love the descriptions of your crew.
glad to hear that you will be comfortable reducing. Not sure I have all the times and numbers right, but it sounds like he went from 500s to 100s in 2 1/2 hr? YIKES!
Did you do the reduced dose this morning?
TaraTara in honor of Ruby.
She was a courageous Boston Terrier who marched right on through diabetes, megaesophagus, and EPI until 14.
Lucky for both of us we found each other. I'd do it all again girly.Comment
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Re: Fox Terrier with diabetes
His bg was 379 this morning. We fed him and gave him 3 units. 2.5hrs later he was 239. My wife will check him again at 12 noon and see what his bg is. I'm not sure what the vet has him on but she will call him shortly. I am at work. We will give him 3 to 4 units this evening of what the vet gave us and do the checks at 2hrs and 4 hours. Then start over in the morning. I am stopping on the way home and get a vial of Relion nph and some syringes. We will start him on it fri at a reduced level twice a day and check the bg. My wife is off fri. so we will have the weekend to get him regulated. Any input is appreciated. I'll see if I can get his picture posted.Comment
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Re: Fox Terrier with diabetes
probably your pup was overdosed with the one dose of 7 units and the body was able to protect with the dose split is a much better approach the numbers you posted see a fairly large drop you must remember at least for my jesse insulin starts working (onset) at 1.5 hours so as you can see that is a substantial drop in maybe an hour of working insulin and it is possible you may have to reduce the doseJesse-26 lbs - 16.5 years old ,11 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin( under the Relion name ) a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
Jesse earned her wings on 6/21/2021Comment
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Re: Fox Terrier with diabetes
Vet said he gave us Humulin n.Comment
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