uncontrolled diabetic dog

[k9diabetes]

Re: uncontrolled diabetic dog

I can understand the vet being concerned, but not angry.

And even if she is angry, she should deal with you in a compassionate and professional manner.

If it turns out otherwise, you will need a different vet. There just isn't room in a diabetic dog's life for a vet who isn't concerned about the welfare and feelings of both the dog and the person who cares for her. After all, you are the person who knows this dog better than anyone on the planet and so has a wealth of information for her doctor.

Natalie

[CarolW]

Re: uncontrolled diabetic dog

Oops - I withdraw my word "angry" - Shelly didn't say that; she said her vet was very upset with her. Sorry, Shelly. So I don't know the content of that!

I've been roundly scolded by my vets on rare occasions. Nicely, though. I think it happened twice, with good reason, and I learned important lessons as a result.

But the vets DO need to explain to us how things work! - that is, to engage OUR cooperation.

Fri, 10 Dec 2010 15:52:09 (PST)

[Shelly]

Re: uncontrolled diabetic dog

So are you saying that what and how much I feed her would make a difference on how much insulin I give her each time? So could I possibly be feeding her too much? Every moring I test her urine and she's usually at 1000 or 2000. I looked at the video's for blood testing and it doesn't look that bad. But how many times a day does it have to be done? And someone mentioned that you could get one for free or close to it, how do you do that? And would it be for pets or human?

[MaryLea]

Re: uncontrolled diabetic dog

Hi, Shelly. Carol is not online, so I will give you what information I can. She will most likely respond later.

We preferred to test Ruffles five times a day: b4 eating ("fasting" BG), two hours after 1st injection (which implies after eating breakfast, but time it from when the shot is given), mid-day (about half way between morning and evening injections), b4 supper, and two hours after the evening injection. We kept a log of the events and times each day so we could look back and she how she responded to whatever happened, whether eating and injection, and what time it occurred.

It is best to keep the amount you feed constant, as best you can. Whatever amount of insulin you administer, keep it constant for at least five days in a row. The only exception is if the dog does not eat a full meal. Then you lower the dose. If that happens, you are off the five-day schedule and begin again with the next meal.

It's difficult when the dog will not eat. Keep looking until you find what works. (Easier said than done, I know!) We added some turkey and gravy baby food (Step 2, Gerber) to the dry food and even heated it a little sometimes (especially if the jar had been in the refrigerator). That seemed to work very well for Ruffles.

I do not know about getting the free glucometer. We purchased one at Wal-Mart. Maybe someone else can fill you in on how to do that.

Feel free to continue to ask questions--that's how we learn. I'm glad you haven't given up. Hang in there!

Mary

[k9diabetes]

Re: uncontrolled diabetic dog

Hi Shelly,

Food and insulin have to be matched.

www.k9diabetes.com/insulinfood.html

So you give a set dose of insulin and with that should be given a set amount of food every day, one meal per injection.

As far as testing goes, there aren't any rules. Some people test every day, some people test once a week or once a month, and some people don't test at all.

In our case, our dog got four meals and injections every day and we tested 3 times a day, usually skipping testing at his 4am meal cuz who needs to handling too many sharp objects at that hour!

What's needed right now though is information on how your dog is processing food and insulin. Testing at home would save you time and would be a LOT cheaper than having the vet do it, plus you can do a curve in their usual home environment instead of when your dog is locked up in a kennel at the vet all day.

A curve is the only way to know how an insulin is working.

Dogs don't always do nice tidy, shallow-bowl shaped curves. So you do the series of readings in a "blood glucose curve" to find out what your dog is doing with however much insulin is being given and the amount of food that's being eaten and then, if things are not as they should be, you can make changes to improve the regulation.

Hope that makes some sense - I'm not very energetic today so might be babbling!

Natalie

[k9diabetes]

Re: uncontrolled diabetic dog

I was a the pharmacy a few days ago and the Freestyle Lite meters were only $20. The OneTouchs were more like $70 - not sure if there was a rebate available.

You can start with a human meter and then when you're proficient with testing and sorting out what the results mean, you could switch to one for pets, which are a lot more expensive. Not only the meter but the test strips, which is the larger cost long-term.

Natalie

[Shelly]

Re: uncontrolled diabetic dog

Well I think it very strange that my vet never mentioned how much I should be feeding my dog. I still don't really know how much to give her. I was doing three or four handfuls but never an exact amount. And you would think they would have asked how much or at least what it was that she was eating. I went yesterday and got some canned w/d fod to see if she would eat that and she is eating that again. I didn't get to talk to the vet, but I will call them tomorrow and see if I can get her curves. I think I will also try the Blue Buffalo food. This morning's urine test was 2000 again. But she is still at only 6 units, which I don't think is enough. I think I will have to do some research on a home testing kit, I just don't know if I can do it. But then again I didn't think I could give injections either. I just really want her to get regulated. I just didn't think it was going to be soooo difficult.

[k9diabetes]

Re: uncontrolled diabetic dog

Did you measure how much of the Beneful you gave?

If you have even a general idea of how much food she ate before, you can calculate how many calories you were feeding her and then give her the same number of calories of the new food.

Definitely start measuring a standard amount - as close to what you have been giving her until you can come up with a number of calories to give. I find that the recommended amounts printed on the bags are usually more food than a dog actually needs.

The best way to go about this would be to set an amount of food and then try to match the insulin to that.

Natalie

[Shelly]

Re: uncontrolled diabetic dog

Before she was diagnosed we just free fed our dogs. So I have no idea how much she used to eat. I do know that she was/is overweight and needs to lose some weight, but I really don't know how much I should give her. And I 'm not understanding when you say to match the food amount with the insulin amount. I just fed her 1/2 of a can of the w/d with about 1/2 a chicken thigh, and then I uped the insulin to 8 units, but sshh don't tell the vet, (ha-ha), they say only 5 units. And then when/if I start testing her BG's at home would I then be able to safely adjust her insulin daily??

[Patty]

Re: uncontrolled diabetic dog

Hi Shelly,
I wouldn't recommend increasing insulin by anymore than 1 unit at a time at most. I would watch carefully tonight. Did you increase from 5 to 8u?

As far as adjusting testing bgs at home, that will help you see where her high and low points are so you know when you can safely increase insulin. But insulin can accumulate in the system over time and so slow adjustments are recommended. You wouldn't be adjusting daily but adjusting after evaluating her trends over a period of 4-5 days or so.

The one time insulin might be adjusted on a daily basis is as Mary pointed out, if she's not eating her full meal. You'd want to reduce insulin so it didn't drop her blood sugar too low without the full amount of food in her system.
Patty

[gail]

Re: uncontrolled diabetic dog

Hi Shelly. I am also feeding my 51lb. Samoyed Healthy Weight Beneful. It is the only dog food she will eat when she feels like eating. I spoke to the diabetic specialist at Purina and she said it was a good dog food to feed a diabetic because it was high in fiber. How much does your dog weigh? Meal time has become a joke. My table looks like a buffet. Tonight there was yogurt, cottage cheese, steak, turkey and Beneful. We started with the dog food-no go. One by one we eliminated everything else and she walked out of the kitchen! Ok, shot or no shot? I took the bowl of just dog food, poured it into a different bowl, followed her and put the food down. 5 minutes later I heard her eating. It was a cup and a half. She finished it. I gave her her 8 units and 1 hour later my husband was eating pizza and she was all over him. It is soooo frustrating. I have my doubts that it will ever get better even though it has only been a little over a week. She does not and never did eat in the morning. We are doing 1 shot at night. I can't wait to go to work tomorrow and think about something else. Gail

[Shelly]

Re: uncontrolled diabetic dog

I have been giving her 6 units, and when the vet would increase her doseage on the Humlin she would always do it by 2. But I also just read the Lantus pamphlet and it says that it is a once a day insulin. So now I don't know why I'm giving it to her twice a day. I'll have to call the vet and ask.
Shawna weighs 39 lbs. And I think the weight of a beagle should be like 25 lbs. The vet also has me feed her and then wait 15 minutes and then give her, her shot. Is that the norm?? I've never tried cottage cheese for the dogs, and as far as the beneful goes she won't eat that anymore either. Do you mix the cottage cheese with something? I had to hand feed her the w/d canned tonight so my guess is she won't eat that in the morning. I just don't understand why this is so difficult. I'm also now wondering why the vet wouldn't have just let me keep her on her current food (beneful) and just feed her twice instead of the free feeding we were doing.

[gail]

Re: uncontrolled diabetic dog

It seems that we are the only 2 that are giving 1 shot a day. I do not know how we could also do 1 in the morning since Shana does not eat breakfast.(she never did) After she eats I give her some natural peanut butter in her kong(this is her favorite thing and the highlight of her day), then the shot. It all takes place within 15 minutes of eating. I have given her the 8 units for 6 nights now, even on the days that she has arely eaten dinner. The 8 units is a small amount for her weight and it has not caused any problems. I have read all of the board posts and everyone has problems with eating and regulating. I feel that it is a very frustrating and probably a never ending battle. I also wonder if the vets really get it? On a lighter note... Shawna and Shana...go figure!

[Shelly]

Re: uncontrolled diabetic dog

Hi gail,
But I am giving her two shots a day, that's what I think is strange. If the pamphlet says it's a once a day insulin then why is the vet having me do it twice. She was on the Humlin N since June. She started at 10 units and then they would increase by two every two weeks after she went in for her blood curve. She was at 26 when they thought that she had a resistance to the Humlin and that's wht they switched it two weeks ago to the Lantus. That's why I also think that they must be crazy at starting her on only 5 units.

[gail]

Re: uncontrolled diabetic dog

Shelly, I think your question istotally valid and that is why I wonder if the vets really get it!? They may have started her on a lower dose just to see how she she does. At least you don't have to worry about her going to low. Is the new insulin the same strength as the Humulin? Don't drive yourself any crazier then you already are, tomorrow will be here very soon. Just call the vet, ask your questions and stand your ground if he or she gets an attitude. There are plenty of vets out there. Where do you live? Has Shawna been eating in the morning? Gail