Maddie

[amydunn19]

Re: Maddie

I know higher numbers are tough to take but you want to keep a very close eye on numbers when you change to the food completely. If she happens to drop drastically after a meal or two of the new food, you will know to adjust downward. But, on the flip side, if you start seeing high numbers during the transition, resist the urge to up the insulin right away. Anything new whether it is a dose or new food does need time to settle in the body - like 5-7 days.

When I switched Maggie from Blue Buffalo to Nutrisca, her insulin eventually dropped three full units so if you aren't careful, it will take you by surprise.

Remember high numbers, although uncomfortable, are not deadly. Going too low is life threatening.

[maddiesmom]

Re: Maddie

Thanks Amy, I do need to keep reminding myself of that. I did just give the 4 1/2 units this am. Will definitely keep a close eye on her numbers. I do have a question, yesterday I came home around 5 pm and Maddie was crazy excited, running around the house throwing her toys around ( she does that quite often) I always worry that a lot of excitement and activity will drop her low but when I took her reading about 1/2 hr later she was 508. Would that be because it was at the end of her insulin? I have never had a number that high since she has been on the insulin

[jesse girl]

Re: Maddie

the excitement can cause the numbers to rise as it can drop

my jesse has epilepsy and if she has a seizure her numbers usually go up after

now it may be timing the body uses insulin to convert sugar into energy now if injected insulin is fading then you have a bunch of exercise and the body is using what it has in stored sugar to supply that energy but no insulin to work with. well you just end up with allot of extra sugar to deal with . the other factor they go lower or drop fast and spike back up like a bouncing ball

there are many things we may not be able to do nothing for . sometimes we have to accept numbers will be higher at times cant lock them up in a bubble . you will always have worry even after 5 years it worry me to leave jesse and relieved to see her at the door when i come home

now understanding curves and dosing is quite simple a dose adjustment up or down is based on the lowest number in a curve . so say you get a 100 as your lowest number and 400 for your highest well you cant really raise the dose based on that 100 . the goal would be trying to flatten the numbers out and get then more stable , i consider excellent excellent stable blood sugar for a dog is a 100 points or lower from low to high . this makes it much easier to adjust a dose

now many dogs cant attain that many do just fine with 200 points from low to high maybe a bit more but after that point you would like to level out the pattern a bit food and sometimes snacks can help but finding whats appropriate and for snack timing is a process of elimination what works and doesnt . have to be a detective . sometimes a complete change in food or just adding one ingredient can be helpful

you will have odd ball days especially at the beginning as the body adapts to the new reality of injected insulin . thats why duplicating routine is helpful for the body to adjust . my jesse use to drop on her walks and needed a boost but overtime that stoped and was not needed anymore as her body adjusted thats why when she walks its at the same time everyday and same activity

[amydunn19]

Re: Maddie

It may be that she ran out of insulin. Usually, dogs are quite lethargic when they are high. I would always try to check her when she is acting out of character or exceptionally playful and active or very lethargic. That way, you know how she acts at a certain number. Some dogs show a low clearly while others just act normally. Maggie has a point where she starts to feel a little panicked right before she hits a big low. I don't know if she starts to feel weak and it makes her anxious but she will start pawing at me and dancing around being really insistent.

[maddiesmom]

Re: Maddie

Oh, there is so much to think about and so many different situations! I don't know if I'll ever get it figured out. Am planning on doing a curve tomorrow, will post the numbers and see what you think

[maddiesmom]

Re: Maddie

Here are Maddie's curve numbers from yesterday:

5:45 am 105 waited 20ish min before giving 4 1/2 units since a bit low
6:15 10 min walk
8:00 265
9:20 20 min walk
10:00 227
12:15 175
1:00 10 min walk-- layed out in sun for 1/2 hr
2:15 115
4:00 154 Layed out in sun again for 1/2 hr
5:40 208 fed
6:00 5 units walk 15 min
I think numbers for pm are messed up because Maddie got into some of my other dogs food
10:00 186
1:00 285 I am sure my 5 :45 number will be sky high

[maddiesmom]

Re: Maddie

Well, not as bad as I had expected. 5:45-- 326. Thought it was going to be worse. Will be more careful tonight and check her numbers again a few times

[amydunn19]

Re: Maddie

I think those numbers are great! I would still want to do more testing to determine if 5 units is right for nighttime. Maggie trends higher at night so she typically gets a half unit more - you just want to make sure it doesn't drop her too low.

Does she go typically higher without walks? I am just curious.

Great job!

[maggiesmom]

Re: my English Setter maggiemay - here are HER numbers

I apologize for bumbing in here...once again I cannot find where I can post a new topic thread. All I usually do is go back to my own posts...and hit REPLY...but if changing a subject that may interest someone...how do I do that. I see NO place to start a thread either on my page or the main page? Sorry...I am missing out on that...just do NOT see any options.

OK, I HOPE someone sees this as it is pretty important to me..I will just put down the numbers, no rant...but want to say first that these numbers are always usually around the same time of day....a 6 hr or so PS # & an 11 hr PS ( almost a total fast from last meal/shot)

((As you can see here....Maggies' numbers are higher when I d0 the test 6-6.5 hrs post shot...and do sometimes lower by 100 or so by the time she is reaching her next shot due...TO ME...something is probably really clear to you who know this disease...but not to me. I would think that her numbers working with the new shot given at noon...may be high til the Insulin kicks in...food rise thing...but WHY are they higher at 6hrs...then decrease as the insulin is supposedly LEAVING her system, and her previous meal most likely totally digested?????

I have had maggie on the a pretty similar food schedule now for years...12 & 12...her shot immediately follows her food.

She eats the SAME DIET...no treats etc in between....her insulin needs decreased about a year or so ago and my vet had me take her from 23 usings to 16....and we took a year at 17 to work our way back up to this 22 units currently on...since January. In December she was on 21.5....before that 21...for at least a month........what Im trying to say is...I am not jumping all over the place with her insulin amounts...if anything we may have gone too slowly...but I wanted to be sure she was not in the rebound state. Maggie is a dog that is mobility compromised...ie....needs help til she gets up and going....in our MD winters these dogs are housebound other then their relief times 3-4 times a day. Maggie is totally blind. She sleeps when she is in the house. Therefore I would expect her numbers to change seasonaly when she can be out doors and somewhat tuned in to Nature...stimulus.

3/24/15 411 630PM 6.5 hrs PS & Meal
3/24/15 429 3:30 AM 3 hrs PS given at midnite

3/26/15 408 630PM 6.5 hrs PS at noonish
3/26/15 319* 11.00PM 11 hrs PS

3/27/15 340 630PM 6.5hrs PS
3/27/15 238* 11PM 11hrs PS

3/27/15 362 445 AM* 4.75HRS ps (GIVEN AT MIDNITE)

3/28/15 381 11PM 11hrs PS at noonish

3/29/15 348 11PM 11hrs PS at noonish

THANKS FOR ANY INPUT.
Maggie...11 yrs old - weight around 65-70 lbs
blind, diabetic since 2011
Humulin N
22 units presently
No UtIs for more then a year, they were almost constant...NO MEDS other then nutritional supplements.

bobbi kilgore, WoodlandSetters MD

Have you considered something called Dawn Syndrome/Phenomenon?
Here's a link to read about it, this refers to human diabetes, but I've heard some say their dogs have this syndrome too. Maybe google it and see if there are other articles.
http://www.webmd.com/diabetes/mornin...d-sugar-levels

[amydunn19]

Re: Maddie

Bobbi - it is probably easier to just continue to post any of Maggie's info/comments/questions in her thread. When people read your post, they can look back immediately and find history to help you.

Do you have any recent curves for her ? The numbers you posted seem to be fairly consistent but the spot checks just don't tell very much about how her day is going and how she uses her insulin. Tests every two hours on a curve day would tell so much more. Dogs have a variety of curves and they don't always go by the book. I would be interested in seeing 12 hours of numbers to see what her curve is doing. I will try to move or at least copy your post to your thread so all of her info is together.

[maddiesmom]

Re: Maddie

Was up most of the night testing Maddie. At 9pm she was only 135, knowing the way her curve normally (whatever that is ) goes is that she continues to decrease until around 2. I gave her a variety snap cookie. Checked her throughout the night, did get down to mid-70's, another cookie (Maddie's liking this) At 4:30 she was at 71, gave her a sugary treat fed early @ 5:00. Just tested @ 5:40 and she is at 150. Will wait a few more minutes and give a reduced dose, maybe drop a unit and just give 3 1/2 this am?

[amydunn19]

Re: Maddie

That is probably a good plan. Are you able to test during the day or will she be alone all day? I would probably even be more cautious if she is by herself.

[maddiesmom]

Re: Maddie

My husband is home a good part of the day. I tested her before I left and she was at 277 at 7:00. If she is 200 or above at fasting tonight should I drop from 5u to 4 1/2 or go less?

[jesse girl]

Re: Maddie

you may want to go with a lower dose maybe 4 or lower . working backwards is ok . if you keep seeing a lower trend continue to reduce until the overall trend turns upward

we base a dose adjustment on the lowest number in the curve

my jesse is on about 8 units of insulin for the day her normal starting dose would be 12 units for the entire day quite a bit lower dose that what you normally should start with . as you can see we had allot of problems with regulation at the beginning because her dose was to much for an extended period of time

i did have one vet to take her off insulin all together because he thought a possibility of a miss diagnosis we did but she showed she was diabetic just needed less insulin

[amydunn19]

Re: Maddie

I think you should lower the dose to 4 or 4 1/2 - whichever makes you comfortable. I think at this point she is showing that 5 is too much and 4 1/2 may be "on the line" so you could drop to 4 to be safe.

This is kind of a weird time - fine tuning a dose can be frustrating and nerve racking but you have to get testing under your belt to figure out how she reacts to different doses. Keep in mind too that you are changing food so her body may not be done reacting to the new food. Maggie gradually dropped for a few weeks even after we transitioned her to her current food. Every time I thought she was leveling out and getting used to it, she would drop again.