New and hard to regulate : Jude

[CraigM]

Re: New and hard to regulate : Jude

One quick comment about food. How are you measuring the food? Are you using a food scale, measuring cups or eye-balling it?. I'm sure you are critically measuring the insulin, sort of makes sense to be critical in the amount of food?

Craig

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: New and hard to regulate : Jude

one example of the food is 55% protein and 36% fat level

giving that he rises back up after food and insulin

the other factor is the ingredient Carrageenan .its reported in mice exposed for 18 days theres profound glucose intolerance and impaired insulin action.

i,d be looking at both foods first before raising the insulin just my opinion

[amydunn19]

Re: New and hard to regulate : Jude

A higher dose of insulin does not harm him and he is still far from being resistant. Some dogs need more insulin. Natalie always says there is no prize for using less. I would go up a unit and keep everything else the same. His numbers seem pretty tight so I say up it one.

[jaycapz]

Re: New and hard to regulate : Jude

Cara - He is on humulin h.

Charlies Mom - That is reassuring, I just heard that once you approach 1/2unit per lb of body weight, your getting into insulin resistant territory.

Craig - I am using a dry measure cup for the dry food. The wet have been basically breaking it down into quarters.

I have tried so many variations of foods, brands and quantities. I've ruled out quite a few. Example is Evo dry which is very very low in carbs, super high in protein. His numbers were never worse. Wet foods seem to have done little when changed, I conclude the wet digests better (but he cant have more than 1/4 of his diet wet. he gets sick). I have tried evo 95% which he is on now, we tried blue buffalo (a few different kinds), all yield same numbers. I've tried low fat, moderate fat, high fiber, lower carb, almost no carb... it seems to have little influence. Stability has been better on this setup.

So interestingly, as I post this what I found this morning. After his much improved weekend, last night he was 398 and then morning his BG was 477. I have no idea why, or what happen. Same food, amount and timing. Same insulin and amount.

Riley Mo - I did a curve at each change, end of each week. The duration of the insulin is the same. The numbers are only about 10-15% difference in variation. Interesting point about the Carrageenan, any recommendations for better food that uses an alternative? I havent seen one for wet. Also keep in mind wet is only 25% of his diet and I went straight dry. It wasn't much better.

I am really just so frustrated, I am literally exhausted and broke from buying bag after bag of food, insulin, supplies. Ugh. I am going to dump all his numbers into a spreadsheet and start looking at this more closely and see what changed, when what spiked, etc. I know its only a little over a month for me, some of you been at this for years. I give you so much credit for your patience, and your success.

[CraigM]

Re: New and hard to regulate : Jude

I wouldn't worry about the difference between 398 and 477. I would guess if you had tested a second time after either of those tests the second number could have been much different than 398 or 477. It's not that the meter / strips aren't accurate, but I believe it could be that one tiny blood sample just isn't the exact makeup of the next blood droplet. I like to compare this to a chocolate chip cookie! If you counted the number of chocolate chips in two cookies, more than likely there would be a difference. Same principle with glucose in the tiny blood droplet? Also, the home testing equipment is likely to be more accurate at very low blood glucose levels to alert us to potential hypoglycemia (deadly) rather than high blood glucose.

Hope you aren't driving yourself crazy with too many food changes. You might consider buying a kitchen food scale. Weighing food (to me) is much more accurate / repeatable than eyeballing the slicing of food. It might not make a difference in your case, but using one would avoid a variable?

I don't recall, have we mentioned the much lower cost of Novolin-N ($25) from Walmart?

Craig

[jaycapz]

Re: New and hard to regulate : Jude

Thanks Craig. I agree with you, I dont take a few points difference to heart. Its really when I see a 50+ point jump as a serious change. Its also consistency, the fact he was getting back into low 300's then is in the high 400's which worries me.

I will most likely invest in a scale at some point, I did weigh out the food after taking the scoops and putting them on the scale. Very little variation, so I figure once I settle into a routine and know what I need. I'll buy more.

I have seen many mention Novilin. My only concern, is going from Humilin to Novilin. Some have said you can, and others have said you can't just jump to different brands. I will say, at this rate humilin is going to cost me a fortune. $100+ a month is completely unreasonable. If I can just switch him over, then I might just give it a try. Cause I cant keep this up forever.

[CraigM]

Re: New and hard to regulate : Jude

I have seen many mention Novilin. My only concern, is going from Humilin to Novilin. Some have said you can, and others have said you can't just jump to different brands. I will say, at this rate humilin is going to cost me a fortune. $100+ a month is completely unreasonable. If I can just switch him over, then I might just give it a try. Cause I cant keep this up forever.

I wouldn't switch between Novolin-N and Humulin-N, back-and-forth, every day, but unless you were regulated in the 90-140 range I wouldn't hesitate switching.

Over about 5-6 years I've gone from Novolin-N to Humulin-N and back to Novolin-N whenever Walmart has changed their contracted supplier. I've backed off a unit for safety, but within a day or two I'd be back to the previous dosage. I think over the 6 years I've been using one or the other, the dosage has ranged between 6 and 7 units. Not because of changes in the insulin, but because of playing with different food, requirements from eye drops / other medications and weight change.

Craig

[amydunn19]

Re: New and hard to regulate : Jude

I actually prefer Novolin - I have used both. It wasn't a huge difference to switch. Novolin seems to last a bit longer - Maggie seems to get an extra hour out of Novolin and the bottle itself seems to stay fresher longer.

[jaycapz]

Re: New and hard to regulate : Jude

Ok guys, I have another question. So I moved him up to 14 units, so far interesting couple of days. He seems to be responding a bit better, I'll post curves once I have him on 3 days straight.

I have another question, I can't see myself spending $120 a month on insulin. Just not affordable at the current time, but I don't want to disturb the progress we are making by switching. Do you guys know if it is safe to order Humulin from Canada or UK? Given its a refrigerated med, does it survive the journey? I am finding the insulin for about $30+ cheaper a vial from CA, but really worried that it won't survive the summer heat. Not sure if those freeze packs will hold up, and if it will really get here in 1-2 days?

HAPPY 4TH OF JULY!

Thanks again for all your support. This has really been so helpful so far.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: New and hard to regulate : Jude

alot of people switch from the expensive Humulin nph to the novolin nph there similar just different manufacturers, its $25 here in canada and the usa. try walmart

[jesse girl]

Re: New and hard to regulate : Jude

i might try novolin under the relion brand for a week or 2 if the range is above 150 for the lowest number ( nadir ) then i might go with the same amount of units as you are giving now

i have not heard any dramatic changes with a switch of nph insulin's maybe subtle which may affect a dog with very tight regulation but for most its not a big deal

if your heart is set on a web order and a delivery from out of the country i would try just one vial and see if it comes cold and mixes well out of the box . there have been some on the forum that had insulin delivered to home. haven't heard of any problems .

[CraigM]

Re: New and hard to regulate : Jude

Years ago I ordered Vetsulin from a couple different sources online (all in the U.S.). These places knew what they were doing by shipping in "cool-paks", only shipped via 2-day shippers, and only shipped on Monday and Tuesdays to prevent the insulin sitting in a distribution center over a weekend. I'm not sure (doubt) I would trust shipping from the UK, or even CA.

Besides, the advertised price I payed for the internet ordered Vetsulin did not include the high cost of overnight, or 2-day, shipping. I really only saved a couple of dollars over buying local from my vet.

As others have mentioned, getting Novolin-N from Walmart is the least expensive choice for me. Even before we had a "local" Walmart and I drove 40 miles, it was still cheaper especially since I'd buy several $25 bottles and 200 syringes to cover nearly 3 months.

Craig

[amydunn19]

Re: New and hard to regulate : Jude

I would not rely on delivery - you don't know how they have handled it.

The Novolin N insulin is the same type. Just because it is cheaper, it doesn't mean the quality is any less. The contract used to be with Humulin. Go for it!

[jaycapz]

Re: New and hard to regulate : Jude

I'm not sure if I should wait until hes a little more regulated, or just do it now while I am still trying to get him there.

I will say, we had a very nice weekend. I bumped him to 14 units, there was not much of a curve. It was pretty flat. He has been about 215-225 in the AM, after feeding hits around 225-245 then couple of hours later hovers around 190-225 range until his next feeding. I finally feel like something is starting to give.

So, I am nervous about switching him since we might finally be onto something. I heard some dogs have not done well on the Novilin, that some are not getting the same duration and in some cases require more or less insulin. Honestly, $100-125 a bottle for insulin. This company is out of their minds. Its cheap to produce, they are crooks in my book. I guess its a decision I'll have to make soon, just nervous given the spot I am in now. Still doesnt make sense how they can charge only $25 for something that should be the same product as the humulin. I guess I'll have to reach out to my Vet this week and have the discussion, I'm sure he will say.. "its all the same, i'll write you a script".

[jesse girl]

Re: New and hard to regulate : Jude

well i have switched from novolin to humulin and back to novolin just because of price and jesse was regulated on each change but i understand you dont want to rock the boat