Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer - Earned his wings

[BogiesMom]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

Hi Louise,
Sorry to hear Munchie isn't feeling well... Just curious, why do they have Munchie eating white rice? Would they consider brown rice or even better barley?
You would think they would want his BG levels stabilized and then other things would follow... But I know the poor little guy has many problems and I certainly hope he can get a spring back in his step soon.
Thoughts your way,
Dawn

[jesse girl]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

i agree you really do want to stabilize the numbers the best you can if you cant change the diet and just to double down with barb jesse has a raw meat processed greens cooked yams and hard boiled eggs and jesse had terrible pancreatitis and havent seen a flare up since we started this diet 2 and a half years

now you may not want to go jesses direction but it shows you can find a diet low in fat that may not have the quantity of rice you are serving

now if you cant get around the rice and thats what is perscribed you probably going to have to give a fast acting insulin if you are getting a big rise after dinner and if so that is probably due to the rice the regular insulin wont be able to keep up with the rice more than likely

just a thought

[Patty]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

I tell you Louise, at this point, in your shoes I believe I would switch the diet. It's not working as it is now for blood sugar or triglycerides. Barb's diet could be a good place to start for Munchie.

[Rubytuesday]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

Sorry Louise, It kind of sounds like we are in the same boat although different diseases. With Ruby I have to decide which disease takes precedent.

I don't know if low b12 could be a factor with the SIBO. Ruby has EPI and if her b12 levels aren't kept up with injections or a special b12 supplement she will have a SIBO flare up.

I am not remembering why he is on a diet with so much rice, can you remind me? I agree with others on either a diet change or working in a fast acting insulin. Do you know how long his food rise lasts?

So tough, I know. Hang in there.

Tara

[buddy]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

I haven't read all the posts, but I must be missing something.

Why is white rice in the diet?

For humans, white rice has a higher reading than table sugar on the glycemic index.

I just did a simple search and there is lots of info such as:

"Those who consumed at least five servings (150 grams each) of white rice per week had a 17 percent higher risk of getting type 2 diabetes than those who hardly ate any white rice at all. And people who were eating at least two servings of brown rice a week had an 11 percent lower chance of getting the disease than those who ate less than one serving of it a month. The authors calculated that replacing white with brown rice would lower the chances of type 2 diabetes by 16 percent. "

I know dogs only get type 1.

I just don't understand the rational on having a diabetic dog on an instant sugar food.

[Judi]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

What about brown rice? Hugs

[LuvMyMunchie]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

I am not remembering why he is on a diet with so much rice, can you remind me? I agree with others on either a diet change or working in a fast acting insulin. Do you know how long his food rise lasts?

Tara: His diet was formulated by UC Davis back in 2008 for high triglycerides except back then it had chicken. Today his bg finally started to decline at the 8 hr. point. Dropped from the 600's to 564. Checked at 6:30 p.m. and it was at 455. Two more hours and it's bucket of rice time again. The only time his numbers go down to something decent is overnight when he doesn't get this diet. He has made a little headway from the 700's he was getting all the time back in Oct. but not much.

I just don't understand the rational on having a diabetic dog on an instant sugar food.

Buddy: The diet wasn't originally formulated for diabetes. For whatever reason his doctor didn't seem to think this current diet was a problem with diabetes. It contains over 66% white rice. Honestly, I'm ready to take a chance with commercial food since their diet never lowered his triglycerides and I'm not too enthused about paying another reformulation fee for something that may or may not work.

Jessie, Dawn, Patty & Abby:
I've been online looking at dog food all day and this is driving me nuts! Munch has proteinuria but hasn't been required to go on a low protein diet. Doctor had Davis formulate one back in March (never had to use it though) and it's 78.2% white rice. His current diet is slightly over 8% fat and lower than any commercial diet - but it doesn't work for triglycerides and definitely not for diabetes! I'm worried as when I run the numbers to calculate ME on commercial food everything is 2 to 3 times higher in fat than what he's currently getting. If I change him to something and cause him to become sick I don't think I could ever forgive myself. If I keep him on this diet without some type of additional insulin he's not going to be ok. I've received some suggestions from Natalie and will discuss with his doctor. I weighed him on the baby scale this afternoon. He was 24.4 lbs. when this started in Oct. and he's now at 22.7. I'm downright scared.

Louise

[momofdecker]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

I think it was you who said you have spoken with Dr. Dodds before regarding Munchie's thyroid. When I corresponded with her back in early June, I mentioned Decker's diet (Science Diet Light) and she had recommended switching him to a grain free food given his cholesterol value was >520mg at the time. She had recommended staying away from any diet that contained wheat, corn or soy as the glutens would be difficult for his liver to handle. Her recommendation was to switch his diet to Wellness CORE Reduced Fat or Wellness Healthy Weight, or a Light formula of Taste of the Wild, Merrick, or Blue Buffalo. I realize triglycerides are not cholesterol but they are still high lipids. I think others have gotten a different opinion on whether a grain free diet makes a difference but thought I'd pass it along as it was helpful to us. Decker was switched to the Wellness Core Reduced Fat and has done very well on it. Hoping you are able to find a balance that works for Munchie.

[farrwf]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

I'll throw my 2˘ in for good measure. I can't imagine why anyone would want a diabetic eating mostly carbs that are rapidly digested and converted to glucose. Looks like you're trying to push water uphill with this approach to controlling diabetes.

As a note ... my first ex-wife was a consulting Registered Dietitian who for a good while worked with a group of endocrinologists at a research hospital performing studies on obesity.She was always in awe of their lack of knowledge about foods and nutrition.

http://diabetes.webmd.com/news/20120315/white-rice-linked-to-diabetes-risk

[Abby's Mom]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

Louise,

You would think I work for Honest Kitchen, but I truly love this stuff. Here is the Guaranteed Analysis for Zeal;

Guaranteed Analysis
•Protein, 35.5% min
•Fat, 8.5% min
•Fiber, 5.8% max
•Moisture, 8.9% max
•437 Calories per cup

The protein is high, but it is fish related. The fat is where you are about now, and there are NO carbs... you can add them separately if you find that you need them.

Abby has allergies, and this food has done wonders for her. No more Schnauzer bumps, cysts, licking paws. Also, her BG levels have done very good on this food.

Barb

[Patty]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

I have to agree with Barb again on the comparison. I like being able to add my own carb as well when trying to balance insulin.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

Keep in mind that there are carbohydrates in the food - they just don't come from grain. Carbohydrates generally aren't listed on nutrition labels.

Here are the ingredients in Zeal:

Dehydrated white fish (line-caught Haddock, wild Whiting), sweet potatoes, eggs, organic coconut, organic alfalfa, apples, pumpkin, parsley, cabbage, bananas, wild Salmon, cranberries, garlic, rosemary, tricalcium phosphate, choline chloride, zinc amino acid chelate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, potassium iodide, potassium chloride, iron amino acid chelate, copper amino acid chelate.

There are various discussions of carbs in vegetables online.

http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/wha.../a/whatveg.htm

[Patty]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

Natalie's right. I get to talking about adding carbs and usually mean the grain/pasta type but sweet potatoes, pumpkin, bananas, etc also include carbs. I found adding lentils to Ali's food help the balance the way millet has for Barb. Each dog responds different.

[LuvMyMunchie]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

Louise,
You would think I work for Honest Kitchen, but I truly love this stuff.
Barb

You talked me into it, Barb. I ordered one of the small packages and will do a trial run. I have a couple other choices to try also so I'll be out buying dog food today. Got to go slow with this as I don't want to do Munch's gut in but if something is going to disagree with him it will happen right away. I hope something dietwise works as things are not going well with his diabetes.

His curve on Monday was horrible. After follwing his doctor's instructions to do twice a day feedings with that bucket of rice diet it is as though we are back at square one. Altlhough not great his bg was actually better on 6 units of insulin and 3 meals than the 7 units and 2 meals. His insulin was increased to 8 units last night and his fasting was in the 600's this morning. Guessing that maybe it will take a couple of days to see any improvement from the insulin increase if I actually see one at all. I am afraid to give him more food when his numbers are that high but the poor guy has got to eat. I am so worried about him.

I've got a question.......In the world of human diabetes consistent daily exercise is part of keeping decent bg numbers along with diet. I see from reading the posts that the dogs here get exercise as part of their bg control. When Munchie was diagnosed and I had my "training" from tech I specifically asked if I should be taking him out for walks and she told me no. He is so high I think a little walk might be of some help....what do you all think???

Louise

[CraigM]

Re: Munchie–11 yr. old MiniSchnauzer–Just Diagnosed

When Munchie was diagnosed and I had my "training" from tech I specifically asked if I should be taking him out for walks and she told me no. He is so high I think a little walk might be of some help....what do you all think???

I think exercise is great for dogs and people (says the 300 pound man). Really, even just a slow stroll is benefical to both physical and mental health, I think. But remember, "every dog, and human, are different"!