when a dog won't eat

[CarolW]

Re: when a dog won't eat

This is a very interesting thread; things I particularly notice - cactusdr, you have a vet you really trust who does in fact seem to know well about diabetes; not everyone here has that experience! I was as fortunate as you; my vet knows it well.

Carolyn, your techniques for getting Gretel to eat are fairly standard ones used at least by positive-oriented dog-trainers; maybe by those who are willing to punish dogs, too. (There is never, ever, a need to punish a dog - my views on that are on my web site.)

Cactusdr; is your dog actually six months old or so? That's young for a diabetic! - yet not all that uncommon, either. The picture is wonderful; if you can put up a few more, I'd enjoy them.

And Kumbi was easy; he ALWAYS ate; the one time he began turning down food, I thought it might be teeth-pain, and I soaked his kibble, and that did the trick.

He DID refuse his breakfast the morning he died - that is, he was already dead just at his breakfast-time. Pardon my macabre humor here. (Sometimes when things hurt so much, well, I don't mind being macabre about my own dog, whom I love with a total passion still - and he died of cancer, not diabetes.)

I have at times had dogs who wouldn't eat, but they weren't diabetic.

With my new dog, as I tend to be rather a perfectionist, and have to watch that I don't become too inflexible, I decided to feed HER every 12 hours, just as I had Kumbi, therefore Kwali too. It's such a great feeding-schedule for any dog, providing the human can manage it, because any medication that needs to be given every 12 hours with food (that's surprisingly common), or any that needs to be given on an empty stomach - are easy to schedule when you're feeding every 12 hours.

So, I worked to teach Camellia to eat every 12 hours. Kumbi was on a schedule of feed at 6:30 a.m. and p.m;, inject at 7 a.m. and p.m. I thought I'd do better with Camellia at 6 a.m. and p.m., but she didn't take to that, so I tried the 6:30 version. She's now been my dog for about 3.5 weeks - well, close to 4 weeks, and is quite reliably eating at 6:30 a.m. (and p.m.). Managing any treats given during the day helps with ANY dog, not just diabetics. I too use treats for training, and Camellia needs SOME training, though I'm going as light as I can with it, as she is hypervigilant and unduly stressed - so I'm trying to keep her stress levels down. (We're having a lot of success, but it will take time to get her in really good shape.)

I just might use the pumpkin cookie recipe myself! I'll also have to be careful that Camellia gets the cookies instead of me. Or maybe we can share them; ha!

Sun, 12 Sep 2010 01:29:54 (PDT)

[CarolW]

Re: when a dog won't eat

One factor I forgot to mention, about getting dogs to eat in the morning - *I* use this, but it might not work for people whose schedules are different from mine - I'm retired, and can adjust to my dogs as needed, though often I do lose far too much sleep.

But - I am up about an hour BEFORE I feed my dog(s) in the morning. I think my dog(s) awaken, notice me moving around, see and scent, as I fix my own breakfast, and so, have been awake about an hour BEFORE I put their breakfasts down. I believe that's how I managed to get Camellia to eat at 6:30 in the morning. With her, I'm eating at the same time she is; with Kumbi, I'd eat, often, BEFORE feeding the dogs, though I've always hated doing that; prefer to feed my dogs before I feed myself.

So far, it's working quite well with Camellia; she is licking her lips and looking excited by the time I put her breakfast down - and have mine ready to eat as well.

Speaking of wreaking havoc with my own sleep - I'd better go back to bed!

Sun, 12 Sep 2010 02:07:28 (PDT)

[Franklin'sMum]

Re: when a dog won't eat

Hi,
From what I've been reading, this may not be suitable for diabetics, but might help someone with a non diabetic pup. I don't like leaving for work if Franklin hasn't had his breakfast, so we've taken to playing 'Hansel and Gretel' on occasion - that is, a trail of schmackos (kinda like a jerky treat) torn into little pieces, a few in his food bowl, and some leading to the couch where he perches to watch me prepare his food. I give him a little piece and say eat your foodies, he jumps off the couch and follows the trail to his bowl in the kitchen, then usually gobbles up his breakfast
Jane and Franklin

[eileen]

Re: when a dog won't eat

Altho the problem of not wanting to eat is such a serious issue that can quickly wear on you I can't help but smile as I read thru the posts on what attempts are made to try and entice your little ones to eat...

For about a year I went thru this same hell with Mildred.

I bought what seemed like a can of every diabetic 'somewhat acceptable' food that was on Petco's shelf....spent countless hours sitting on the floor hand feeding Mildred.
Even to the extent of the old 'one for me, one for you'...yep, I've eaten my share of dogfood just to get her to eat something.

Made sandwiches out of dogfood and sat down as if it was my meal, with her begging for 'people food' I'd eat a bite of the 'sandwich' then offer her a piece, of course without the bread...it actually worked for a time or two.

Did (and sometimes still do) the " Ashley (cat) is going to get your breakfast ! " with holding the cat just a few feet away.

Turned on the 'tough love' and would set her meal down for a period of 20 minutes and then pick it up and put it away.

...And even had my break downs of throwing a fit, getting angry at her and forcing food into her mouth....all of which I am truly ashamed of and really hate to admit.

Finally, I went to home cooking and for the most part my major eating issues were resolved. She still has her days but nothing like I went thru with her 2 years ago before this.

I can totally sympathize with anyone who is being faced with a diabetic dog that won't eat.

[spiritdog6]

Re: when a dog won't eat

Eileen, Thanks for sharing your road of the "gol dang it EAT" frustration.

Once again this AM I found myself sitting on the floor, playing the game of pick up piece of chicken while saying oooooooohhhhhhhhhhh, having him sniff it, bite it, then spit it out. Then another oooooooooohhhhhhhhh, show it to him, and have him watch me feed it to my other dog. The next piece he took, and once he eats just one piece, he will eat the rest of the dish. It is sad to see there is no enthusiasm from him to eat.

I wish I could exercise him more (hoping that will increase his appetite) but until my other dog is treated for his Cushings we are stuck on very short walks. Sidekick is currently heat and exercise intolerant.

Here's hoping for better appetite in the days ahead.

[eileen]

Re: when a dog won't eat

Eileen, Thanks for sharing your road of the "gol dang it EAT" frustration.

Once again this AM I found myself sitting on the floor, playing the game of pick up piece of chicken while saying oooooooohhhhhhhhhhh, having him sniff it, bite it, then spit it out. Then another oooooooooohhhhhhhhh, show it to him, and have him watch me feed it to my other dog. The next piece he took, and once he eats just one piece, he will eat the rest of the dish. It is sad to see there is no enthusiasm from him to eat.

I wish I could exercise him more (hoping that will increase his appetite) but until my other dog is treated for his Cushings we are stuck on very short walks. Sidekick is currently heat and exercise intolerant.

Here's hoping for better appetite in the days ahead.

I'm so sorry you are going thru this....and with another that has Cushings

When Mildred was deeply into refusing to eat I was always so excited when she would finally eat a meal...but then would begin to anticipate what I would probably be facing come meal time again.

It is such an emotional rollercoaster.

Sending lots of positive vibes that your eating issue will soon be resolved!

[buddingartist]

Re: when a dog won't eat

Reading through these posts makes me very very lucky to not have that problem.

When Buddy started going through that phase (very short time of me having to sit on the floor and feeding kibbles one at a time), the vet technician suggested adding warm/hot water to his kibbles, let it soak to soften the kibbles, stir it up to create a gravy and magically, he loved it.

Now he just absolutely jumps with excitement when we carry the food bowls to their spot on the floor and he eats ravenously. He loves the new food he is on, I started adding a little wet and the mix of vegetables (cooked/shredded green beans, brocoli and spinach). He has very little eyesight and usually goes to the veggies first.

Joan, I'm sorry but I couldn't help laugh at the visual of 9 pugs and one mommy sitting on the floor while having their meals.

Good luck with your little one.

[CoolGram]

Re: when a dog won't eat

After reading all these posts about feeding issues (and of course all the other issues we face with our diabetic pets),and how they were (or weren't) resolved, it got me thinking about the level of committment we have to our pets. I think maybe some of this should be required reading for anyone considering adopting a pet. I believe that most people who adopt a pet, especially if it's their first pet, don't have any idea what might eventually be required of them at some point in time. You have to view it almost like adopting a child, because that's the level of committment it takes, especially with a pet who has health issues. You really need to think of that animal as a family member, not just a "pet".

All of the pets belonging to those of us here on this forum are lucky to have families who were willing to make that lifetime committment, but it makes me sad to think of the animals out there whose owners weren't willing or able to do it.

It was just a thought that occurred to me as I read, and thought I'd share it. I'm sure many of you have had the same thought.

On a more upbeat note, I too had to laugh at the mental pictures I got of all of us trying all these crazy tricks to get our dogs to eat. You gotta see the humor!

Carolyn

[Rudy]

Re: when a dog won't eat

Fortunately, Rudy never had a major eating problem, until he was on WD for two months. Last week he refused to eat any more WD and now spits it on the floor if we try to mix it with other food. We switched to Blue Buffalo Wilderness and he now eats everything we put in his dish. But we had to increase his insulin to cover the higher carbs.

Occasionally, in the past before he was diagnosed, he would stop eating if we didn't change the brand every once in a while. Apparently, he got bored if he was given the same brand day after day.

[ozzi]

Re: when a dog won't eat

Amen Carolyn! Thank you so much for your heartfelt post on this thread. I couldn't agree with you more. And that's why I'm crazy about you!! I don't think a lot of people understand the commitment of adoption. Sadly, people sometimes (and probably too often) see a cute puppy, and nothing beyond that. I really do love your idea of this forum as "required reading" prior to adoption! When I recently adopted Kobi, I had to fill out a 4 or 5 page application that was very involved and asked questions that forced you to think about the commitment. For example, one of the questions was "How much do you estimate as the cost of caring for a dog annually?" I had no idea how to answer it based on my most recent experiences with two sick geriatric dogs who went to the vet more than I have ever seen a medical professional in my life!
Kevin

[spiritdog6]

Re: when a dog won't eat

Ok, I need a recipe for some kind of dog gravy. I read that using bouillon cubes is a no no as they both beef and chicken have onion powder in them. I bought a can of dog food 'stew" last night but there sure wasn't much stew in it.

I am still struggling to get Hunter to eat. I don't want to get him started on canned food, a wee bit here and there is ok, but I want to keep the dry going for him.

Anyone have a simple recipe for a non toxic gravy for a dog???

He is getting tired of chicken mixed in with the kibble........jeesh.

[CraigM]

Re: when a dog won't eat

I know a lot of dry kibble dog foods suggest adding a little warm water to make "gravy". I've been adding a bit of water to Annie's food and she seems to like it that way. We let it sit for maybe a minute to stew.

[CarolW]

Re: when a dog won't eat

Craig beat me to it!

LOTS of dogs love wet, mushy kibble; I think especially if it's warm! So, often enough, I would pour boiling water over Kwali's kibble; later, over Kumbi's kibble, and let it cool enough so it wouldn't burn their mouths.

Both dogs LOVED the wet, mushy kibble. Camellia likes it too, though I've stopped soaking hers, because she needs to chew something, and I haven't yet found a chew toy that's safe that she will chew!

I changed Camellia's food, because she was on Eukanuba Adult mainenance small bites, which has BHA, BHT, and ethoxyquin in it - nasty preservatives. I managed to get her changed over in about four days, and she's been eating the new food for a couple of weeks now.

It's a kibble made on the mainland in B.C., apparently from local ingredients. Called NOW! The exclamation point is part of the name of the food.

I'm a bit dubious about the amount of protein it has - 26% protein; 16% fat. Max 4% fiber; too low for a diabetic. Much too much fat for a fat-restricted diet. So adding canned pumpkin wouldn't make it a food suitable for diabetics.

I'm so bad with numbers, I thought Camellia had gained FIVE POUNDS in two weeks! I cut her kibble back very slightly, and also eased off a bit on the Lamb and Rice Rollover I use for training - and desensitization - treats, and she lost a tenth of a Kg in one week.

Goes to show one must keep written records, because I'd thought she was 7.2 Kg on 2 August, but NO - she was 7.8 Kg - which IS 17.1 pounds.

She weighed 7.8 Kg a week ago today (17.1 pounds). So instead of having gained five pounds, she was stable with her weight, right through the change of food. And because I cut back very slightly, today she was 7.7 Kg (16.9 pounds.). GOOD Camellia; I'm so relieved; I can feed her about the same amounts I'm feeding now, or even just a bit more.

To get her to eat the new kibble, I made a mush of it, by pouring boiling water over it, and letting it cool a fair bit, but it was still quite warm. Then I dropped a few tiny bits of Lamb and Rice Rollover into the mix. That stuff is probably no good for a diabetic dog. If she were diabetic, I'd try low-fat cottage cheese, or bits of chicken breast, or steamed broccoli florets. Kumbi liked all of those.

But not only did I make a mush of it; I ALSO spread it quite thin on a plate, when she turned it down when it was in a bowl. I picked up that tip in a post to the VetPet Partners email list, about feeding a reluctant cat. On a plate, spread thin, it seems it's not so overwhelming to the animal!

After changing back to dry only, I'm now feeding from a bowl, and Camellia is eating fine.

The other thing about me feeding her is, because I found it so very useful to feed every 12 hours for Kumbi I wanted to feed Camellia on a similar schedule, primarily, so I could schedule medication that is to be given every 12 hours, either with or without food.

It took me a couple of weeks to get Camellia to eat at 6:30 in the morning. Lots of our forum members have had difficulties with dogs who find it hard to eat in the morning.

I do have the luxury of having my own time as i like (or need for my dog). So, I'm usually up at 5:30, though I set my alarm for 5:50 a.m. - and I fix my own breakfast. I'm moving around quite a lot, and I think Camellia, with her need to watch me, has then been awake, usually an hour or so, by the time I feed her.

Oh; one other item - and i wonder if this might help Hunter. Or Sidekick! I fed 0% fat yogurt to Kumbi - put it on his food. I wanted to introduce Camellia to this stuff too, but didn't want to put it on her food, in case it made her turn away. So I put a thimbleful on the palm of my hand, about a half hour after her meal (I eat at the same time she does), and offered her that. After a few days, it seemed she rather looked forward to this little lick of yogurt. Where at first, she was very tentative, now she licks it up easily.

Pardon my long ramble!

Thu, 16 Sep 2010 19:02:02 (PDT)

[sheureka]

Re: when a dog won't eat

I think I have been very, very lucky with Rowlf. She gets up and wants to go out at about 6 in the morning, comes in at 6:30 for her breakfast, then has her shot and a little chicken jerky at 7. She has been on W/D since she was diagnosed - 1/2 cup dry with a fat tablespoon of wet - and she loves it. It's gone in about a minute.

[eileen]

Re: when a dog won't eat

Ok, I need a recipe for some kind of dog gravy. I read that using bouillon cubes is a no no as they both beef and chicken have onion powder in them. I bought a can of dog food 'stew" last night but there sure wasn't much stew in it.

I am still struggling to get Hunter to eat. I don't want to get him started on canned food, a wee bit here and there is ok, but I want to keep the dry going for him.

Anyone have a simple recipe for a non toxic gravy for a dog???

He is getting tired of chicken mixed in with the kibble........jeesh.

One of the tricks that worked well with Mildred when she began to refuse dry food back in the early years was to take a tad bit of sardines from a can, squash it through out her food so to make a stinky mess of it all....

She refused her dry kibble completely if I soaked it in water so used the taste and smell of the sardines to entice her.