Update on Athena

[MikeMurphy]

Re: Athena. Newly DX: Diabetes

That’s kinda crazy. Dogs are type 1 diabetics, meaning their pancreas no longer produces insulin. They are completely dependent on injected insulin. Their lives depend on it.

Some diabetic dogs can experience a honeymooning period where their body produces some insulin, but this is usually a temporary thing.

[Weloveathena]

Re: Athena. Newly DX: Diabetes

That’s kinda crazy. Dogs are type 1 diabetics, meaning their pancreas no longer produces insulin. They are completely dependent on injected insulin. Their lives depend on it.

Some diabetic dogs can experience a honeymooning period where their body produces some insulin, but this is usually a temporary thing.

Thank you Mike I agree
And then I was thinking oh maybe because dog diabetes is so different than human diabetes but common sense in my mind dictated that is a pretty risky path to take the dog that sick

[Raysaint]

Re: Injection sites. Advice pls. Results of first Curve

For a new diagnosis, crazy and inconsistent numbers will happen for a while. Stay the course.

For injecting my dog, I mainly use the scruff of the neck, between shoulder blades and base of his neck; I move it around the area.
Once in a while I use the area just behind the upper part of his front leg, on the side, about 3 inches down from his spine. There is a bit of loose skin there.

One thing I found is that when I first inject there, the flesh seems to contract and tense up, so I wait a couple seconds and then inject slowly. If it keeps contracting whhen I start to inject, I pull it out and use the scruff.

[Raysaint]

Re: Athena. Newly DX: Diabetes

No insulin in a type 1 diabetic is a slow death sentence. I'd be reporting that person if it was me. That's just me.

Going from 14 to 18 units is not a gradual increase, and the body might react in funny ways. Spot check around nadir times. Not sure why a vet would increase that much, even being on the low side of the starting dose.

Mike had a couple good treat suggestions. I also use the Purebites chicken, and a couple brands of dehydrated liver. These treats are pure protein and generally don't affect blood sugar, however, moderation is still key. Protein can be converted and stored by the liver as sugar, but usually doesn't enter the bloodstream under normal conditions.

It's also good eventually to have a carb type treat, to use if you see slightly inconsistent nadir numbers, or to offset physical activity. Depends on when you exercise, or if maybe morning fasting was low, etc.

I give my dog a couple pieces of dehydrated sweet potato every day, just to add a tiny bit of carb, to help prevent lows later in the day during nadir hours, but it's not enough to shoot his sugar high. If he doesn't want sweet potato, he gets one of the Royal Canin biscuit type treats I got from the vet.

[Weloveathena]

Re: Athena. Newly DX: Diabetes

She increased her from her first curve results but I’m not doubting my vet We think she’s very good Athena is a bit of a difficult case with other health conditions. Today was the first day that she didn’t want to take the shot she has been so good with everything and today was the first sign of what seem to be like she was just not wanting to do it period. We got it done calmly but inside I felt bad for her
She such a great dog and a wonderful member of our family. This just sucks especially after just losing our oldest, our sweet boy in December. We really thought she was just grieving his loss the way she was acting plus she has Cushing’s. Never did we imagine that her weight loss and not eating was a result of her being diabetic it just came at a nowhere it seems. Before our boy passed away she will eat the kitchen sink if you let her.

As for the woman who is not treating her dog with diabetes. Her vet is fully aware of what she’s chosen to do it’s not for me to get involved and report her to anyone. Seems that it was an issue her vet would do the reporting

We just lost our boy in December and are now faced with dealing with Athena and her diabetes on top of Cushing’s and our focus is on our dogs. We also have a younger want to think about who is healthy but still needs us just as much

[jesse girl]

Re: Injection sites. Advice pls. Results of first Curve

I think being started on a low dose , being a large dog and the numbers being high across the board within a curve a 2 unit increase in this situation is ok and appropriate

Actually not wanting a shot may say your dog is feeling better and felt like protesting . Actually at the beginning of jesses journey she was so sick that poking and messing with her made it easy and got her use to a routine. if she felt better she may have protested more

Your dog can feel your sadness and I think thats more of the reason than the passing of your sweet baby as dogs live in the moment and as long as your sad they stay sad . That is why we love them so much because they seem to know how we feel and let us know that

[Weloveathena]

Re: Injection sites. Advice pls. Results of first Curve

Athena is in her second week of insulin increased from 14-18 dose wise
She’s been transitioned to her food which she is eating without any issues

I did it to our post meal test tonight randomly to check her and it was 690 the highest number she’s had yet

What the heck??

My Vet is out of town but there’s a back up of it so I’m calling in the morning but I don’t understand this at all she’s not getting any better she’s getting worse with higher numbers

How long does it take for changes to start and insulin to start working in a dog she’s not always hungry like she used to be but she still gobbling down tons of water

[jesse girl]

Re: Injection sites. Advice pls. Results of first Curve

One number only tells you one point in time and i would not place allot on individual numbers they can be helpful in combination of other tests along the way

In the early days of jesses diagnosis i would check jesse and get a high number and run to the vet and ask what are we going to do about this and there was nothing to do except what we were doing .

Its not uncommon to see numbers go higher after a dose adjustment . Why we dont know

You must remember you also did a food change which may have an impact

Complete curves are the only way to determine what impact a dose change has

[Raysaint]

Re: Injection sites. Advice pls. Results of first Curve

It can take a while for a dose change to adjust. A 4 unit increase can throw the body into a big state of flux. And a food change almost always affects numbers and patterns.
You have to give it time for the food and insulin to shake out and see if it will be the right combination.

I just increased my dog a half unit, 3 weeks ago, and I still don't see much improvement. I saw some really crazy extremes, more highs than lows, but I'll give it more time, because there are good days, so it is possible for his body to use this dose properly.

[Weloveathena]

Update. Athena

Brief update
Athena is now up to 25 units once in the morning once at night
We didn’t curve on her last Tuesday. First time there was actually a curve but every number was over 500 with the highest paying over 600
I’m not sure right now this alpha trak 2 meter is good we have two of them now because we thought the first one may have been defective but you can take her blood one minute and it would be for example 615 do it 30 seconds later and it’s 535
There is an anything I wouldn’t do for her we would spend our last time but we expect to have tools ( especially as expensive as the meter and just the test strips alone are ) that are at least accurate and I don’t even know if this is accurate
I’m taking a urine sample to the vet on Monday to have them just do a dipstick test
And then go from there and possibly have more blood work done I’m very frustrated with this alpha track 2 meter that everyone speaks so highly of

I did call their tech line and they said we were doing everything correctly making sure it was calibrated and so forth but I find it hard to believe that these numbers are accurate

The next plan is that if she does not respond to 25 units they will treat her for the Cushing’s and stabilize that first and then go back to treating the diabetes I don’t even know if it’s right to take her off insulin If she’s resistant to it then what else can we do

I don’t want to keep sticking her in filling her with something that’s not even helping her

We had to contact the emergency after hours that one night her number went to 690....4 hours post meal And she was just laying there not really responding to anything while we were on the phone she finally started acting alert and the vet asked us to keep an ion her but definitely bring her in if she started doing that again which she never did

It’s been an overwhelming few weeks especially so close to losing our oldest dog that we had to put down right before Christmas for which Athena is still grieving and searching for him You’re doing the best we can for her and trying to help her through everything but this has us is very concerned.

She’s lost an additional 6 pounds

I forgot to say her injections are getting challenging we been using her neck area but she just doesn’t have a lot of loose skin anywhere so you been rotating around her neck area

Any feedback is welcome. Thanks

[jesse girl]

Re: Update. Athena

You might want to keep your posts on one thread in case a member needs to look back at your previous posts . Its difficult to do that on multiple threads

Not sure if you signed up for k9 cushings . It is our sister site and they may give some understanding of cushings

If your dog was 120 pounds a starting dose would be 24 units so at 25 units you are just at about a starting dose

Has you dog shown classic physical symptoms of cushings ?

As far as the meter probably all meters arent that accurate at higher numbers but if its 500 or 600 it doesnt make that much difference in that range

I have never seen a dog on the forum taken off insulin and treat cushing . If a dog is diabetic that wont change and they need insulin

[Weloveathena]

Re: Update. Athena

You might want to keep your posts on one thread in case a member needs to look back at your previous posts . Its difficult to do that on multiple threads

Not sure if you signed up for k9 cushings . It is our sister site and they may give some understanding of cushings

If your dog was 120 pounds a starting dose would be 24 units so at 25 units you are just at about a starting dose

Has you dog shown classic physical symptoms of cushings ?

As far as the meter probably all meters arent that accurate at higher numbers but if its 500 or 600 it doesnt make that much difference in that range

I have never seen a dog on the forum taken off insulin and treat cushing . If a dog is diabetic that wont change and they need insulin

Thank you Jesse I had my other thread here closed for a personal reason but we were already members of the Cushing’s site when Athena was first diagnosed with Cushing’s and we loved it over there we got a ton of information and feedback. I think I am going to head back over there but Athena has since lost six additional pounds and while we realize that this is the optimal dose for her to be on we’re going to wait and see what the curve does on this coming Thursday
We may have misunderstood the vet tech but our vet will be back this week from out of state and we will be able to talk to her we are thinking to treat her with insulin and a very small dose of Veteroyl and that might even her out
She does have the classic signs of Cushing’s but the medication she was on stopped working altogether and it was decided we would just give her a break from it. Unfortunately our older dog became ill ( he was 12 and sadly it was time to go for which we are still shattered over ) and that’s when we had to put him down right before Christmas and then shortly after Athena was diagnosed with diabetes
Hopefully by the time we do her curve at the end of next week we may see some different results I just wondered if anyone had any issues with that specific meter but I never thought of it being an issue with high numbers so I’m very happy you pointed that out thank you
And because of her size although she is slimming down quite a bit it’s still hard to injector anywhere except her neck area and upper back

Thank you for your response we really do appreciate it

[Weloveathena]

Update on Athena

Athena is up to 30 units am/pm
She was taken off the hills diet and placed on Royal Canan due to the recall And and she likes the RC much better. She still losing weight
Her numbers are still in the high 500 and 600s and her urine constantly tests at +1000
Nothing seems to be working we believe That her Cushing’s could be causing her to be resistant to the insulin but there is no change in her numbers whatsoever

Her behavior is where she does well for awhile then crashes. Her blood sugars are never good

We are contemplating our next move with her because I can’t continue to inject this poor dog with insulin that’s doing zippo for her we believe the Cushing’s is probably the culprit of making her resistant and even though they say they get the diabetes under control first before treating the Cushing’s again I don’t believe that’s going to be the case for Athena

These consistently off the chart number is in both her urine and her blood cannot be good for her and I know it’s different than humans but I don’t know what damage is being done to her on the inside because of this her liver test is awful

The range is up to 212 and she is almost at 1000 at 968


We are going to be speaking to the vet this Friday. Not sure what will happen next. There isn’t anything we wouldn’t do for our dogs. Will you will you will go without to make sure they have all they need and would never cut any corners but she can’t keep going at this rate


Hope all is well with everyone

[jesse girl]

Re: Update on Athena

I dont understand the logic of not treating either disease because they are so interconnected with each other . If you finally reached a dose that broke resistance and then started treating the crushing disease that dose maybe way to much

Is it going to be risky sure but the advantage you have is testing sugar at home
to catch any lower trends and adjust insulin if needed

Lots of people have manged both diseases and did well and dogs had a good quality of life

I hope Athena finds that place so she can continue her wonderful dogs life

[Raysaint]

Re: Update on Athena

Have they tested for ketoacidosis? It usually affects liver enzymes, and certainly urine.