Kumbi died uexpectedly June 8 2010

[We Hope]

Re: New Member - Princess Just Diagnosed with Diabetes

If you have had shot issues with Kumbi, we want to hear about them and how you solved them.

Kathy

[CarolW]

Re: Shot-time Dilemmas-Your Experiences & Fixes, PLEASE!

They address the terror issue. Especially the one cocerning the grooming table. Also, the emotinal conditioning necessary to change the dog's terror.

Ignoring the emotional condition is likely to allow the problem to continue. Attending to it can bring rather quick results.

Fri, 13 Feb 2009 14:57:52 (PST)

[We Hope]

Re: Shot-time Dilemmas-Your Experiences & Fixes, PLEASE!

They don't deal with giving insulin shots, and this is what we are looking for.

Kathy

[CarolW]

Re: New Member - Princess Just Diagnosed with Diabetes

I had only small ones - Kumbi's efforts to escape the shots. Nothing like what Ladygirl is having, as Kumbi never became terrified. However, I assisted two or three pepole eleswhere, helping them change the dogs' emotional assocaitions, and they reported almost immediate success. No guarantees that Ladygirl's succeses would be so immediate, because that's a lot of terror to overcome, but getting rid of most of the force should make the biggest difference, along with providing something tasty to lick (distraction).

Fri, 13 Feb 2009 15:02:15 (PST)

[We Hope]

Re: New Member - Princess Just Diagnosed with Diabetes

And how did you overcome Kumbi's resistance?

[CarolW]

Re: New Member - Princess Just Diagnosed with Diabetes

Similarly to how I described it in my long post. But I've ben omitting something crucial - before you can calm your dog, YOU must be calm. That will take som preparation - take a few deep breaths, have the prepared syringe ready, have the saucer ready, and tell youself you will stay calm.

If you consult any "positive" dog-trainer or behavior counselor, you will find them giving similar suggestions, though some omit the calming signals aspets. I use them because they work so well with dogs.

P.S. I've lived with dogs over 50 yars, put intensive study into behavior and training for over 30 years, and have experience with a a variety of dogs - large, small, feisty and calm.

To emphasize: calming YOURSELF first is essential.

Fri, 13 Feb 2009 15:15:01 (PST)

[We Hope]

Re: New Member - Princess Just Diagnosed with Diabetes

Carol,

This still is NOT about you and Kumbi.

Kathy

[CarolW]

Re: New Member - Princess Just Diagnosed with Diabetes

Okay. I crooned to Kumbi, stroked him (had the syringe ready), and when Kumbi was fairly relaxed, I shot him. *I* was relased, first.

If Ladygirl will leave me a private message with her approximate location, I MIGHT be able to find a currently working dog behavior counselor near her who would be wiling to attend to help her change the dog's emotional associations (and to calm the dog so the injections can be given).

I did with Kumbi exactly what I described in my long post in Ladygirl's thread on Princess. It's standard operating procedure among "positive" dog-trainers and behavior counselors.

Though I retired many years ago, I still have some professionl contacts on the better behavior lists, so perhaps I could help locate somebody to help.

Fri, 13 Feb 2009 15:50:23 (PST)

[CarolW]

Re: New Member - Princess Just Diagnosed with Diabetes

My long post seems to have disappeared, but I can point to excruciating detail on what I did with Kumbi:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/groomintable.php

Use the NEXT button to continue (PREV to go back)

and

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/painlessinj.php

Use the NEXT button to continue; PREV to go back.

There's also information on converting to use U-100 syringes with U-40 insulins; you can use the Fast-Track linsk:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/merrymeasure.php

And to compare needle-length and thickness, approximately to scale:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/cvt6p5udisplay.php

The first step in being able to inject is to keep the dog's emotions under some reasonable control, and the first step in doing that is to remain calm yourself. The painless-injection series comments on that.

Fri, 13 Feb 2009 16:28:30 (PST)

[We Hope]

Re: Kwali (ndd), Kumbi (dd) and me (Carol, ndh)

http://k9diabetes.com/forum/showpost...4&postcount=26

[CarolW]

Re: Kwali (ndd), Kumbi (dd) and me (Carol, ndh)

Thanks for the link, Kathy! I really appreciate it! about what happens when a dog is struggling to get away: the dog is terrified. It is in overload, and can't learn anything. People used to "sack out" horses, thinking the horses would learn that nothing is going to hurt them (while flogging them with soft sacks - no pain - only terror!)

The technique is called "flooding." Flooding isn't used any more by those who know behavior - horses or dogs, alike.

I knew that if I scared Kumbi, I would have to start from scratch another time, and get that shot to him without scaring him unduly.

Princess trying to claw her way out is dong her best to escape. Her fears at that point are irrational, and she can't learn anything, so will never be able to lear that the shot doesn't hurt (much).

So it's worth taking time to do all possible to get Princess to relax, at least a little, and of course, that's also what I did with Kumbi.

Kumbi will still sometimes begin to turn away as I come with the neelle, but stops when I lift his skin, and a moment later, he has his insulin, and is eagerly looking for the treat he knows follows the injection.

I really liked the idea of the "pretend-shot," and suggest Ladlygirl try that, as it's likely to help ease Princess's fears.

To calm a scared dog - to avoid arousing those fears, you have to change the visible and tactile cues the dog is getting that causes it to believe it is in danger, and must escape.

Thus engaging a dog's cooperation is basic to succeeding with injections.

Fri, 13 Feb 2009 17:51:26 (PST)

[CarolW]

Mysterious High BGs - bad insulin?

Oh, my goodness! A bit over a week ago, I noticed Kumbi had been drinking more water than usual. I couldn't see anything wrong with him. My last curve test on him was 5 December, 2008. I was getting ready to do another curve very soon - just waiting till Kumbi had a relaxed day or two before I did the curve.

But - by Wednesday last week, I saw Kumbi was drinking quite a LOT more water than usual, and then Thursday (19 March) eve more.

Time for a test.

Thursday, 19 March 2009 - test results

Kumbi has been drinking more water, last two days
Especially last night and this morning.

SPOT CHECKS - Ultra2 meter

10:07 - 24.5 mmol/L = 441 mg/dL (high for Kumbi!)
14:35 - 12.8 mmol/L = 231 mg/dL (that's better; whew)

15:55 Ketones - negative (I had to buy strips in town)

I had checked Kumbi all over for possible signs of infection- couldn't find anything even remotely suggesting it. Kumbi's energy levels did seem slightly down, but not bad.

he had been munching on Neighborhoot Invader-Cat droppings. Could that be it? he does that occasionally, without particularly noticeable changes in his general BG levels.

BUT! The vial of insulin I was using - Novolin-NPH - had partly settled, or precipitated - at the time I bought it. So had my reserve vial - I always stay one vial ahead, if I can. I had never seen this before when buying Novolin NPH insulin - had seen it only in vials that HAD in fact deteriorated, over time. (I keep a lot of old vials around.)

To make a long story short, I phoned Novo Nordisk, and they are going to analyze the contents of the vial for me, free of charge. I received the pre-paid shipping packet in the mail today, and will mail it off tomorrow, my weekly Hunt Day, from the post office in town.

Meantime, I had bought a new vial at the drugstore on 19 March. Rather than start a new vial in the evening, I used the questionable one, and opened the new vial the next morning.

Over the next five days, Friday 20 March through yesterday, 24 March, Kumbi's water-consumption dropped gradually to normal.

So, big question! IS that vial weak? or not? Guess I'll find out! It will take time, though!

Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:55:30 (PDT)

[eyelostit]

Re: Kwali (ndd), Kumbi (dd) and me (Carol, ndh)

When did you open the vial of insulin? I know you sent it back, did you make a note of the date you started it on your log or info sheet for Kumbi ?

[k9diabetes]

Re: Kwali (ndd), Kumbi (dd) and me (Carol, ndh)

Will be interesting to see what the result of the testing it.

Dr. Bruyette last night told everyone to just NOT use a compounding pharmacy to make up insulin preparations that are readily available as commercial preparations because the consistency in the commercial preparations is so much better.

It is kind of amazing that there are relatively few problems with insulin given how many hands it goes through before arriving at the retailer.

I still wonder whether Vetsulin left out overnight actually was degraded.

I'm glad Kumbi's getting back to normal.

Natalie

[CarolW]

Re: Kwali (ndd), Kumbi (dd) and me (Carol, ndh)

Hi Dolly,

Knew I forgot SOMETHING critical in my post - thanks for asking! The date I opened the vial! I had purchased it on 29 January this year; opened it on 7 March (always for the a.m. shot). I had used it, then, for almost two weeks - it was in the second week that Kumbi's BGs began to climb - not too fast - but by18 March (Wednesday), they were quite up, and by Thursday the 19th, more so. Confirmed by that 10:07 reading of 23.5 mmol/L - 441 mg/dL.

I write on the carton the day I purchase a vial - careful not to cover up stuff like lot nmbers or expiration dates (that's shelf life, of course). I also write the date I open it on the carton - and on the vial, too. And the date I retire it, also on both. And I note it on my lovely Calendarscope computer program.

I did send the suspect vial off today. They probably won't receive it till Tuesday or Wednesday next week. They might check it promptly and will phone me with the results. I'll report back when they do!

Meantime, Kumbi is really back go his normal glowing good health; what a relief! That's after 7 days on the new vial.

Fri, 27 Mar 2009 00:04:08 (PDT)