Scruff the Schnauzer, Rest in Peace 10/31/15

[AndyBees]

Re: Scruff the Schnauzer

Today's Vet visit went okay. .......... the Glucose number was 288... down from the 318 taken on his initial visit earlier this week.

Vet recommended using Walmart for supplies ...... right off!

He has recommended that I use Glucose test strips for his urine and to test each morning.

Starting off with 6 units of N twice daily.

He wants to go this route for one month to see how it works. He has been working with two Schnauzers for over three years with good results.

.......... I just gave Scruff his second injection (the Vet did the first one).

[amydunn19]

Re: Scruff the Schnauzer

The urine strips are not very accurate. It depends on how long the urine has been in the bladder because when the blood sugar is higher than 150-180, the excess sugar will collect in the bladder. If you did it first thing in the morning, the urine would have sat there for so long and collected glucose all night. This would most likely show a higher glucose level than he actually has. If the blood sugar is under 180, it would just show that it was normal. Low blood sugar cannot be detected at all with urine strips.

Blood testing is the way to go if you can do it.

[AndyBees]

Re: Scruff the Schnauzer

Yes, over the last four days, I've done lots and lots of reading here in this Forum and numerous links............. they all point to blood testing! In fact, seems I never read anything about urine testing!

However, considering Scruff goes out to urinate several times throughout the night, the concentration should be relative close to reality.

Scruff has always had this routine. Due to my own health issues (tinnitus), I sleep down stairs on the couch with the TV on low. Scruff sleeps beside the couch in his sleeper. He generally goes out about 11:00 pm. Then he wakes me around 2:30 am and again about 5:30 am to go out....... has done that almost from day one.

So, based on Scruff's routine and the Vet's apparent success with two other Schnauzers, he has suggested to give this a try for one month. He told us that he does have several other owner's doing home blood tests with other breeds.

We did discuss meters, calibration differences, etc., this morning during the Vet visit. We also discussed diet.

With just two injections: I can see an improvement, such as less urinating, less drinking, considerable spunk during our walk this past evening, and excitement when the grandchildren come over to spend the night. His appetite has not changed.

[Cara Sandler]

Re: Scruff the Schnauzer

However, considering Scruff goes out to urinate several times throughout the night, the concentration should be relative close to reality.

It might not be. If his glucose goes from 400 to 50 in a few hours (not saying that it will, but just as an example) his urine glucose will be elevated. And the reality is that at some point his blood glucose was dangerously low. That's really the bigger reason to test his blood.

[CraigM]

Re: Scruff the Schnauzer

Although I've never used urine test strips, it seems the possible danger is the pup might have very low glucose and you wouldn't know it. As I understand it, anything below about 160-180 would show "normal". So, 150 or 30 (near coma) would look about the same on the urine strip.

Just my impression, I admit I could be wrong . I encourage anyone to set me straight.

Craig

[amydunn19]

Re: Scruff the Schnauzer

I am glad that your vet is open to testing. It is always helpful to have a vet who will cooperate.

I know we go on and on about the value of blood testing but we have just seen it make a huge difference. Just like today, I was telling my vet about the dramatic change in Maggie's blood sugar when she is taking this anti-itch medicine, Apoquel. It causes her low point to occur much later in the day and her blood sugar takes a pretty big nosedive. I also told him about the same thing happening with a couple of other dogs from the forum on the same medicine. He was really glad to know it and said he would make any diabetic dog owners aware of it and monitor them if they prescribed it. He would have never known this if I hadn't been testing. The company who makes the drug hasn't had any diabetic dog trials which is strange because allergic diabetic dogs really need something besides steroids. It is not such a bad thing - just something people need to know before they use it.

[AndyBees]

Re: Scruff the Schnauzer

Before the second trip to the Vet, I had read almost an encyclopedia of information about canine diabetes. About 75% of the information come from this web site and the numerous links provided in the various Threads here.

I'm aware of the risks of doing only urine strip testing. The intent, as I mentioned, is to do the urine strips for one month.

The Vet started Scruff on 6 units twice per day. So far, administration has been a breeze. Sticking to the modified diet seems to be working out okay too. Although he's only had four shots, of which one was this evening, he no longer gulps loads of water and is not constantly running to the door to go out and urinate. I give the shots 30 minutes after the meal.

Today, we did a three mile hike in the Big South Fork National River and Recreation Area at Blue Heron. Scruff is very familiar with the trails there. Thus, we always take off his lease and let him roam on ahead of us. He goes out a distance and comes back, then repeats staying within our sight. So, my guess, he probably hiked close to 4.5 miles or more. This has been his/our routine for 8 of his 9.5 years of life...... generally more miles each trip. And, since we live in a remote rural area, he's out and about several times daily. Point is, he has and will get more than ample exercise.

Anyway, during the hike, he never showed any signs of weakness, no more than usual urination ([hiking one or the other back legs], as he is not neutered) and he only drink water one time at a small stream .... just a few laps, which I actually lured him off the trail to do so. Upon return, I offered him water in his bowl at the Van, he did lap a bit, but nothing unusual. Also, his drinking and urination this morning was about typical.

Scruff has no other known illnesses, nor taking any meds or supplements. He weighs 21 lbs, has a good coat and an excellent appetite. His teeth were cleaned about 14 months ago. I do brush them weekly, sometimes twice per week.

I am looking at Alpha Trak 2 glucometers on Amazon. Seems the price is right compared to what I've read here. I have an aunt that has an expensive human meter from Walmart (she never had to use it). I believe I can do some comparative readings to see where the human meter reads in relation to the dog meter. So, maybe I can do the testing without it being so expensive.....

[jesse girl]

Re: Scruff the Schnauzer

be careful on exercise. this was never explained to me by the vet. i told them i took her on bike runs with me and they said that was great

the problem is her blood sugar was dropping quite dramatically and did not know until i started testing blood sugar . she never did go hypo during those early days but her blood sugar got quite low . she could drop a 100 points chewing on a bone . the thought if metabolism is boosted that gets insulin working faster

not to say a dog can not do the same things but there maybe limitations . testing will help with all that . we have tested half way through a hike if sugar was lower she got a snack and or some honey . jesse has spacific times she can exercise when insulin is weak but she still chases rabbits and go on long walks . we found what works and jesse leads a safe dogs life

so be careful bring liquid sugar with you and some carby snacks and maybe dial it back a bit until you have a better understanding of your pups blood sugar and how it reacts to exercise

just a thought

[amydunn19]

Re: Scruff the Schnauzer

Exercise can drop them so you want to do snacks until you get the meter or start testing. Maggie drops like a rock on walks and after having a bath - like 100-150 points and she is old so we don't walk very long. There are and have been very active dogs and that shouldn't change as long as you know the effect and offset it.

[AndyBees]

Re: Scruff the Schnauzer

Thanks for the tips about exercise and snacks.

As I stated, hiking on weekends, even on cold and rainy days, has been our routine for a number years..... Scruff has not missed a weekend. He was out with us last weekend even though we suspected diabetes was going to be the prognosis on Tuesday. That hike was rather short though.

Actually, I gave Scruff a hefty snack before we left home for the 45 minute drive to the park. Also, I took along snacks for him (and grandkid snacks too....LOL).

We stopped at a country grocery on the way home to pick up some frozen green beans.......... going to give them a try as a substitute for the Shep dog biscuits he's accustom to receiving after a potty trip outside.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Scruff the Schnauzer

Just a heads up on consistency

everything the same every day for the 12 hour period

same insulin, same food, same exercise

i would encourage you to start testing asap as you dont know the affect of his hiking, treats ect on his blood sugar.

glad you picked up the green beans for a substitute treat as they dont raise blood sugar

at first diagnoses i would limit heavty treats and alot of hiking till you know what his bg is. Hiking could lower his blood sugar and you wont know till you start testing.

watch for hypoglycemia, low blood sugar, acting drunk, wobbly
treat with a dog bisciut dipped in sugar.

let us know if you need help with the hometesting k.

[AndyBees]

Re: Scruff the Schnauzer

Well, his 2:30 am pee break come a little over an hour early tonight. Amazingly, he likes the frozen green beans.

On weekends, we always do afternoon hikes (1:00 pm to 5:00 pm or slightly later), either Saturday or Sunday but very seldom both days. It will be interesting to see how a 3 to 5 mile hike (free roaming for Scruff) will affect his numbers. I'm doing his insulin shots at 7:00 am and 7:00 pm.

Week days, living in a remote rural area, he has always been allowed to be out and about as he wants. Of course, he doesn't leave and stay gone for hours. He just goes out and about for 15 minutes or so, several times during the day.......... cold or rain pretty much cuts those outdoor minutes short.

So, other than the weekend hikes, which we may need to modify for him, his routine of mobility is pretty consistent from day to day.

It is good to know that exercise increases insulin effects. Seems I never read that anywhere.... just to provide adequate exercise.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Scruff the Schnauzer

Exercise is a big component in dog diabetes regulation

in the beginning of this journey its better to limit exercise then add it back in once you get closer to regulation

execise can raise blood sugar and it can lower blood sugar.

I walk Riliey to bring his blood sugar down when its high

i test before our walk and after so i know what his blood sugar is

i can walk him too much dropping his blood sugar too low causeing hypoglycemia, low blood sugar. Then i need to intervene with some karo to bring his bg back up.

its very important not to exercise a newly diabetic dog too much. hometesting my dog i know exactly how long to walk him without his blood sugar going to low

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Scruff the Schnauzer

Also an intact un neutered male diabetic dog,s blood sugar can flucuate . Low testerone in an older un neutered dog can fluctuate blood sugar. Another component added to Scruffs diabetes journey.

[AndyBees]

Re: Scruff the Schnauzer

Wow!

This morning, his glucose level (strips) showed to be normal. As usual, he goes on his "self" walk which lasts about 15 to 20 minutes each morning. On the way out, he passed his water bowl (still same level as at 2:30 am, so he didn't drink since then). (I did test him at 2:30 am... on the high side.)

Anyway, I prepared his morning meal while he was gone........... upon return, he was not interested in his meal or water... wanted to play with his toys... we played for a few minutes. Then, he preened himself a bit and now is laying on his sleeping pad relaxing...........

I seriously doubt he found anything to eat or drink while out...

So, this is obviously when I need to be able to test his blood glucose level.

At the moment, what should I do. Giving him an injection of insulin is a no, no in my opinion.

In the past, he's very seldom skipped a meal.