My Baby Boy Greyson!

[brittanyt]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

Pam,
Thank you SO much for the info and kind words. I honestly teared up when I read it. It really touched me. It was exactly the encouragement that I needed because I was beginning to doubt my ability to take care of him. I'm calling soon to see if the vet has the test results back. I'll post when I hear something. I'm praying that it isn't cushings but if it is, I'll get out my tears like I did with the diabetes diagnosis and move forward. I'm going to go look for that book, btw. It sounds like something I could use.

Thank you again

Hi Brittany:

Darn I lost my post!!! I hope I don't duplicate this....Anyway, I wanted to tell you that I bought a book on Amazon called "Dogs, Diet & Disease" by Carolin Levin. It's been a godsend with the food issue and other things I've needed to know. It's good reference.

Anyway the diet I feed Pip is as follows...just so you know the book I mentioned mentions that to begin a home cooked diet you would base the amount of 2 to 3% of your dog's body weight. Pip weighs around 23 lbs., and as you'll see he gets way way more than that because he's a hyper lunatic. All dogs are different!

Diet consists of:

10 oz. chicken breast cooked
6 1/2 oz. green beans pulped in food processor
6 1/2 oz. zucchini pulped in food processor
3 oz. pure pumpkin (not the pie filling)

He gets this twice per day. I measure each individual ingredient and put one mean in a deli container. I leave out 3 days worth (6 containers) in the refrigerator and freeze the balance. I take more out as I go along.

I add calcium, powdered vitamins and herbs, samE, probiotics and milk thistle to this combination when I fix his meals. I mix up and serve! Pip is a pig and will eat anything, but our other dog Newman loves it too.

Just so you know, it's time consuming and for me more expensive than kibble, but I feel it's better for him in the long run, especially with chronic pancreatitis.

I'm hoping that Greyson's results will be NONE OF THE ABOVE tomorrow. But even if it isn't, you've been so good with him and have done so well. Brittany, please feel free to send me a private message if need be and I'd be happy to give you my phone number too!

Good luck!

Pam

[pgcor]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

Brittany - no one was more terrified than I was and still am at times! I think that's okay. I know exactly how you feel, it's a scary thing having to deal with a chronic illness you were previously unaware of! But look at you - you keep plugging away. You ARE doing well - it's not just kind words!

Pam

[brittanyt]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

okay, here goes. i have cried to the point that i don't think i have any tears left.

i was thinking worst case scenario would be cushings. i was hoping out of the two it would be his thyroid. i got the results back today and almost dropped down to my knees when i was told he has both.

everything is sort of still a blur but from what i understand, his testing results showed "borderline" (i think that was the word used). she explained he has it but we caught it in the earliest stages. i had to call around to find a pharmacy that had lysodren in stock. for now, he will take 1/8th of a 500 mg pill once a week.

for his thyroid issue, since he doesn't do well swallowing pills, instead of giving him 1/2 a pill twice a day, he will just get get the whole thing once a day.

my mind is swimming right now. on the pharmacy printout, it says lysodren is to treat adrenal cortical cancer. does that mean he has cancer or is it just what it is used for in humans? i broke down again when i read that.

if anyone has any experience with lysodren please let me know. the printout is so specific about storage : "store at 77 degrees away from heat, moisture, and light" naturally i thought our bathroom would be a good place b/c it's generally warm but it also then states not to store it in the bathroom.

any ideas?

the pharmacist said it will probably cause dizziness/drowsiness which i know she means in people but i'm wondering if it is the same in dogs?

I can't read what the thyroid drug is. It just says "ty" so I don't know how to look up info on that. That was something I picked up at the vet.

Sorry for the overload of questions. I hope you don't mind me posting here. You all have become like family. I know there is a separate cushings forum that natalie told me about and I will go there also but for now, I wanted to come here and get all this off of my chest. I can't lose him. When I lost his uncle tragically, it was Greyson that brought me through it. Am I over reacting? I can't bear the thought of having to put him to sleep. I feel like they would have to do me as well.

[AlisonandMia]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

Hi,

I haven't posted on your thread before - but I have been following along.

Regarding the Cushing's diagnosis: would you be able to tell us what test he had and post the results (the actual numbers)?

I will say straight off I think it's most unlikely that Greyson really does have Cushing's. It is totally to be expected that a poorly-regulated diabetic dog will come up positive on a Cushing's test as a result of physiological stress. It seems that Greyson has come up "borderline" positive - many diabetics could actually come up quite strongly positive, depending on the test. The low thyroid may also be a result of the diabetes. Would you be able to post all the numbers for that test too?

Treating a non-Cushing's dog with cortisol-lowering medications can be very dangerous HOWEVER the dose of Lysodren that Greyson has been prescribed (125mg per week (25mg/kg if he weighs 11lbs which is 5kg)) is most unlikely to do anything at all. If he did have Cushing's that dose would almost certainly be totally ineffective and so is most unlikely to do him any harm at all.

Most dogs don't experience dizziness or drowsiness with Lysodren treatment although if they are on a very high dose this can happen. I think the pharmacist was talking about humans - in humans very much higher doses than are usually used on dogs are used as they are using it to control adrenal cancer. With dogs the side effects are usually only a result of the cortisol being lowered too far although some dogs can have minor GI upset (easily managed with Pepcid or something similar.

Another thing that makes Cushing's unlikely is Greyson's age. While it is possible for a 3yo dog to develop Cushing's it is very, very unlikely. By and large it is a disease of middle-aged and elderly dogs.

For Cushing's to be considered in a diabetic you need to be seeing sustained insulin resistance at maximum doses of insulin for the dog's size. I don't know if you are at that point with Greyson (I don't know enough about diabetes and insulin) but if you are not (and if you are getting hypos at any point) then Cushing's is quite unlikely. There are many reasons for having trouble regulating a diabetic aside from Cushing's.

It is not uncommon, unfortunately, for diabetic dogs to be wrongly diagnosed with Cushing's because the signs and symptoms of both diseases overlap and because the diabetes itself can cause false positives on the tests that are used to diagnose Cushing's.

Alison

[Roxee'sDad]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

Hi Brittany,
Just wanted to echo what Alison mentioned. Mik was originally dx'd with cushing's but with further diagnosis it turned out to be diabetes causing the cushing's symptoms.

Mik: 13 yo Shih-Tzu (robertpri)

http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=657

John (Roxee's Dad)

[brittanyt]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

Thanks John and Alison. I will go back and read through Mik's thread. I'm going to hold off on the lysodren until I can get copies of the test results faxed to me tomorrow.

I can never say it enough. I don't know what I would do had I not found you wonderful people and this forum.

[pgcor]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

Hi Brittany - I know nothing about Cushings or thyroid issues, but was glad to read the advice from John and Alison. Don't give up! You are right to check all possible avenues... I do know that the drugs they use for Cushings disease are also used for cancer patients, so I don't think you need to worry about that.

I just won't allow any more bad news today!

Pam

[AlisonandMia]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

There is also Autumn's thread - this is another case where Cushing's was diagnosed when the dog didn't have Cushing's: http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1211

And her thread at K9C: http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=541

Alison

[k9diabetes]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

Brittany,

I wouldn't give the thyroid med either until we can see what thyroid test was done and what the results were. Again, waiting a day or two won't hurt anything. If the proper test wasn't done, I wouldn't guarantee there is a thyroid problem either.

Natalie

[Roxee'sDad]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

Hi Brittany,
I just realised that much of Mik's original thread was lost when cc net went down. I'm sure he would be happy to share his story and experience with you. You may just want to PM him.

John (Roxee's Dad)

[k9diabetes]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

Hi Brittany,

I'm going to post the test results here and then you can copy them to a post at the Cushings forum.

I cannot tell what kind of test the vet did for thyroid. It does not actually say Free T4 with ED so I'm still concerned that this test may not be accurate. Chris' thyroid levels used to come up borderline low on a standard blood panel and when checked with the Free T4 with ED they came up smack dab in the middle of the normal range because that test is not affected by concurrent illness.

ACTH Stim Test

Pre - 9.43
-- reference range given is 1.0-6.0

Post - 24.8
-- reference range given is 6-17, borderline 17-22, Cushings >22.

Thyroid

"Total T4" - 0.967 -- reference range 1.7-3.6ug/dl

The lab results are kind of a pain to read as they don't supply reference ranges or indicate clearly when things are high... I will note what seems to be marked as abnormal - only his triglycerides and cholesterol.

Amylase - 258
Glucose - 210 (Nice!)
BUN - 31
Creat - 1.55
Sodium - 144
Potassium - 4.8
Chloride - 123
CO2 - 15.3
Calcium - 10.9
Phos - 4.5
Cholesterol - 319 reference range <200 desirable
Triglycerides - 1,469 Reference range <150 desirable
Uric Acid - <0.5
TP - 7.0
Albumin - 4.1
Globulin - 2.9
A/G - 1.4
AST - 34
ALT - < 6
LDH - 1,138
AlkPhos - 82
Total Bilirubin - 1.4

Blood count all normal.

_____________

Was she planning to treat the thyroid?

Natalie

[k9diabetes]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

Alison, I emailed you a copy of the lab results.

[brittanyt]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

Natalie,

I will call tomorrow and find out exactly what thyroid test was done. Yes, I have medicine here at home for the thyroid. I was just holding off. I will go post in the cushings forum now.

Should I go ahead and start him on the thyroid medication? And continue to hold off on the lysodren?

Hi Brittany,

I'm going to post the test results here and then you can copy them to a post at the Cushings forum.

I cannot tell what kind of test the vet did for thyroid. It does not actually say Free T4 with ED so I'm still concerned that this test may not be accurate. Chris' thyroid levels used to come up borderline low on a standard blood panel and when checked with the Free T4 with ED they came up smack dab in the middle of the normal range because that test is not affected by concurrent illness.

ACTH Stim Test

Pre - 9.43
-- reference range given is 1.0-6.0

Post - 24.8
-- reference range given is 6-17, borderline 17-22, Cushings >22.

Thyroid

"Total T4" - 0.967 -- reference range 1.7-3.6ug/dl

The lab results are kind of a pain to read as they don't supply reference ranges or indicate clearly when things are high... I will note what seems to be marked as abnormal - only his triglycerides and cholesterol.

Amylase - 258
Glucose - 210 (Nice!)
BUN - 31
Creat - 1.55
Sodium - 144
Potassium - 4.8
Chloride - 123
CO2 - 15.3
Calcium - 10.9
Phos - 4.5
Cholesterol - 319 reference range <200 desirable
Triglycerides - 1,469 Reference range <150 desirable
Uric Acid - <0.5
TP - 7.0
Albumin - 4.1
Globulin - 2.9
A/G - 1.4
AST - 34
ALT - < 6
LDH - 1,138
AlkPhos - 82
Total Bilirubin - 1.4

Blood count all normal.

_____________

Was she planning to treat the thyroid?

Natalie

[brittanyt]

video

I wanted to share a cute moment I got of Greyson today. His new obsession since he can no longer have meaty bones are squeaky toys. There are probably 30-40 he has collected. I get them at Wal-Mart and the dollar store for a dollar and he loves to try to pop the squeaker. Anyway, this made me smile and I really needed that today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqKuqiiZDS8

[Patty]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

Too cute Brittany. I love the way he cocks his head, lol.