BUDDY

[BoJanie]

Re: BUDDY

You seem to be getting the hang of it, way to go! But it is frustrating to get those high (600) numbers and scary too. I use a fast acting insulin with Bo if his bg goes over 400 and I know the insulin is at least 3 hours from peaking. I would not recommend you use any of that unless/until you have a good handle on the shape of his curve. You don't want to give extra insulin right before a drop in bg is coming. I agree with Patty that you should do some night testing - the only way you will know for sure about how the bg/insulin is working for Buddy and it can vary from the daytime numbers a bit. What about eliminating the hamburger a couple of days and see what happens?

[buddy]

Re: BUDDY

Thanks for the great advice, BoJanie! Yes, we need to cut back on the 96% lean ground beef but we are now rationalizing that:

Since the BG is dropping from 300's down to 100's withing a couple hours of food and shot i.e. after the 7am food and insulin injection, that maybe the ground beef isn't bothering him and could actually be helpful in slowing down that initial plunge in BG.

We recognize our thought process may not have any validity. We have cut out all treats -- except for green beans -- between breakfast and dinner. We definitely need to test Buddy after a period of going meatless. However, this dramatic change of diet is a real shocker to Buddy so I am trying to at least keep his spirits up with hamburger for a "taking his shot" reward.

I am going to buy some Blue Buffalo Healthy Weight soon and add that to the meal and test.

[buddy]

Re: BUDDY

I was looking at the Blue Buffalo healthy weight food varieties and there are a number of them -- Does anyone out there recommend a specific type that might be best for a 20 to 30 pound schnauzer?

I will be using the food as an addition to his current diet of Hill' WD Prescription. Right now, we feed Buddy 1 1/2 cups of Hill's twice daily.
I will try 1 cup Hills and 1/2 cup Blue Buffalo -- or whatever is equivalent in Blue Buffalo weightings. Then test.

Buddy's BG drops quickly in the first two hours anywhere from 600 to mid 100s or the latest curve -- 300s to mid 100s -- then gradually the curve moves back up to the highs by 2 or 3:00pm.

So we want to add something to the diet that has more carbs and will enter the blood stream to counter the insulin.

This will create a more level bg curve -- although it may raise the curve as well producing higher lows and lower highs which then allows us to increase the insulin. In effect bringing down the more level bg curve.

We are also giving the insulin injection 1/2 hour after the food was eaten and decreasing the insulin from 6 to 5.5 in the a.m. (Novolin N).

[BoJanie]

Re: BUDDY

Let me make another suggestion and of course, this just speculating as we don't use this insulin (tried it first and never got good numbers). But, I did try to break up the meals a few times to see what happened. 1/2 breakfast with insulin and then 1/2 an hour later. We got ok results. Then I decided that I needed to cut the food (our mini sch is 24-25 lbs). We went from 1 1/2 cups twice a day to 1 1/4 cups twice a day and finally 1 cup twice a day. This was the magic amount, bg's started to level out. In discussing this with an internist, she worked up the calculations for his weight and activity level and said this was a good amount. I think you are still overfeeding is what I am trying to get at! So maybe give 1 1/4 food with the shot, then test and give the hamburger treat with the test, or something like that. If the numbers improve, maybe ratio the other food in at 25% to 75% WD. I understand why you want to introduce a new food into the mix, but I would just wait a bit and try the WD (less) first. It is good for the diabetic dog but I do like having another food with some other protein mixed in with it (we use Royal canin PV) ratio 3/4 WD to 1/4 PV. You are right that sometimes when you change something (as in less food), you will be able to back off the dose. Keep us posted, you are definitely doing trial and error and that's the only way to narrow it down. Also, I do give a few treats here and there when Bo's sugar is lower than I am comfortable with or before/after a walk. I give him a couple of bites of canned PV with his fishoil tab and mini carrots or small carb biscuit for lows. I think this is why we can give less food for meals and still get weight gain and better insulin control. My 2 cents, no charge!

[buddy]

Re: BUDDY

Thanks BoJanie -- sounds like a great way to approach this process. Your history with Bo is really interesting. Self-testing can provide a window into how our dogs are responding and enable us to more quickly determine the appropriate/best combinations. I don't want to learn after the fact that I could have taken some type of action that could have prevented or at least delayed Buddy from going blind or suffering the consequences of this disease.

[buddy]

Re: BUDDY

Hi Everyone,

I am doing a BG curve on Buddy today.

The changes I have made to his diet the past 3 days are: I have cut back on the food from 1 1/2 cup twice per day to 1 1/4 twice per day. I also am not feeding him lean hamburger or chicken breast with his meals. I also feed him 20 minutes before giving him the shots whereas in the past I always just gave him the shot at the same time as the food. I was planning on adding a little more heavier food like Blue Buffalo -- maybe 1/3 Blue Buffalo and 2/3 Hills WD Prescription but I wanted to see how big a role feeding 20 min prior to giving the shot and doing away with the 5 or 6 small pieces of hamburger and chicken along with his food.


I have stayed at the same Novolin N dose of 6.

Here are the results so far today:

7am 393
9am 85 after I walked 1/2 hr from 7 to 7:30
noon 185
2pm 298
4pm 166 after 1/2 hour walk from 3 to 3:30

After I saw the 85 reading, I immediately gave Buddy about 20 kibbles of the Hill's WD prescription food. That reading is the lowest yet by quite a margin.

Exercise make a huge impact on Buddy's BG.

I double checked the 4pm reading and still in 160s.

Here is my BG curve done last week -- when I was feeding 1 1/2 cup along with 5 little peices of boiled lean hamburger and or chicken breast -- instead of just the 1 1/4 cup that I've been giving the past few days:

7am: 359 before food and shot
9:30 am 154
11:30 am 179
2:00 pm 344
4:00 pm 284
7:00 pm 419 before food and shot

His prior curve two weeks ago was:

7am: 444
11:15 am 152
1:30 252
3:30 650

My view after seeing the results are:

Increase the food back to 1 1/2 cups twice per day and consider using a combination of 1/3rd Blue Buffaloe and 2/3rds Hill WD Prescription. That way there will be more BG to offset the 6 units of Novolin N.

It appears Buddy is very sensitive to the Novolin N but that the Novolin N wears off by 3 pm. So that was the reason for wondering originally if I should cut back on the Novolin N to 5 units in the am and then give another shot with a small dose of 1 unit at 3pm.

I was considering giving him 6.5 units at night but after seeing the 85 BG reading at 9am this morning, I think that I need to keep that level at 6 units -- at least for now unless I find out that adding Blue Buffalo makes a difference.

I will post the results of the remainder of the day as I finish out his curve.

I would like to hear any advice those reading would like to share.

Thanks!

[Abby's Mom]

Re: BUDDY

What I have found to be the case in our situation, once I remove the deep drop, then the insulin would last the full 12 hours.

Is it possible that you can provide a carb with his meal. For example, I started to use cooked Millet, and this prevent the drop that Abby was getting, and now her insulin will last a full 12 hours, or even 13, whereas before, she would run out about the 10th hour, and she would drop quickly after her injection.

She is still on the Humulin.... I can only imagine what the Novolin will do... but we will find out soon enough when we switch over in a week or two.

Barb

[buddy]

Re: BUDDY

Thanks Barb.

Yes, that seems to be very good advice and others have mentioned it as well in the past.

I have two thoughts:

1). I can buy some millet. Do you suggest adding it in addition to the 1 1/2 cups of Hill's WD Prescription -- or as a replacement to a portion of the Hill's WD Prescription? Do you buy Millet at health food stores in bulk and cook it up like steel cut oats?

2). Maybe Blue Buffaloe will provide those carbs as well since it is a nondiabetic food source.

I do want to mention I always walk Buddy for a half hour right after his 7am meal and shot.

Thanks!

[Abby's Mom]

Re: BUDDY

I played around with a few types of carbs, before I found millet. I felt like Goldilocks and the three bears. and.... 'This one raises too high, this one raised not enough, and this didn't raise at all. '

I had Abby on the Blue Buffalo at one time, and I found that actually that food would give her a wild rise. So, you may want to transistion completely, and then do another curve. But in the meantime to catch those lows, make sure you test around the same time to catch those drops. I think once that occurs, you will know that Buddy may rise fast, and insulin will only last 10 hours.

You may also want to check on a day that you not walk Buddy at 7:00 (perhaps a rainy day), and then see if he goes just as low. If he doesn't then you will know that it is the walk that lowers him, and you may want to start the walk with some honey, to raise him until he gets back, and then maybe he will stay somewhat even.

It truly is trial and error, and doing one thing at a time. I found that to be the hardest thing, because I wanted to fix everything right away.

So, as a recap.

Transistion his food over to the Blue Buffalo - do a curve
of course catch any of those lowering numbers and proceed with food or honey.

Once transistioned, then see if the walk lowers him by testing before walk, and then after walk.

Barb

[BoJanie]

Re: BUDDY

Your curve is not that bad and better than the previous. The 85 is a bit low but probably due to the walk in the am. Maybe the millet would help with that. I haven't used it but sounds like it might help even out the bgs. I would stay with 1 1/4cup of your mix, whatever you decide is the best combination of foods, at least until you get more curves and numbers. The new food may actually raise the bg enough without more volume. The W/D needs to be combined with something else IMO. I'm not a fan of it, but it does seem to help lower the bg's for us.
Keep us posted!

[buddy]

Re: BUDDY

Thanks Barb. If Blue Buffalo had that big of an effect on Abby, I may first switch Buddy to his original Science Diet lite food(we were giving him prior to the diabetes diagnosis). I still have some around and that way I can see how the insulin is working with a a diet higher in carbs --- but not dramatically so.

I think the walks are having a big impact -- as evidenced by the updates I have for the BG curve:

Here are the results so far today:

7am 393
9am 85 after I walked 1/2 hr from 7 to 7:30
noon 185
2pm 298
4pm 166 after 1/2 hour walk from 3 to 3:30
6:30 pm 361

If we can a different food and use honey or something similiar during walks to keep his BG more steady, then we can have a higher but flatter curve and eventually increase the insulin slowly to bring the whole curve down.

I am really interested in seeing how Buddy responds to these changes.

[buddy]

Re: BUDDY

Hi Janie, that sounds like a good idea because no reason to throw caution to the wind in moving to Buddy's old food so fast. I like the idea of trying millet as well and, if Buddy seems to like it, I may move in that direction as an added supplement.

[Abby's Mom]

Re: BUDDY

It does seem that Buddy drops when walking, so I would try honey, perhaps a dab, and then see the impact it has.

Regarding millet. I can purchase the millet either in bulk, like a Whole Foods store, or find it in my local grocery store, where they sell rice, quinoa, etc. My recipe is a little different than what is on the package.

Bring 1 cup of water to a boil
Add 1/2 cup of millet
Simmer for 12 min
Let stand off of stove for 10

I found that if I cooked too much longer bg levels would rise too much. I give Abby 1 tab plus 1 tsp = 1.75 oz.

Her food however does not have any grain in it, so you may to start with a smaller amount.


However, I think it is a good idea to see how his new food settles in, and your curve looks very promising. A few tweaks, and you just may be in a good spot.

Barb

[buddy]

Re: BUDDY

Thanks Barb for that recipe! Looks easy enough.

One question: You say you give Abby 1 tab plus 1 tsp = 1.75 oz.

I don't have a scale so how big is a "tab"?

I just got done getting a blood sample from Buddy 9am (I didn't get a 7 am sample -- and I fed Buddy 3/4th cup of the Science Diet Lite along with 2/4ths Hill's WD prescription along with some hamburger).

Hi 9am blood sample was 322. Which is surprisingly high. I believe it is due to the hamburger and too much Science Diet Lite. So I will cut back some on the higher carb food -- Science Diet lite and give no hamburger and retest.

It may be due to the somajyi rebound as well since yesterday Buddy was down to 85 at 9am. However, due to giving Buddy more food and higher carb food, I am inclined to think it was due to too high carbs.

[BoJanie]

Re: BUDDY

Whoa, back up. Did you start the science diet today and gave more than twice the regular food? I think the recommendation is 7 days to slowly switch over. Also the hamburger, is it necessary to give as part of the meal? Can you use it to help with the low from the walks, either give it before or after?
My concern is if you change too many things at once, you aren't going to know which thing was the one that helped. I know it's frustrating to get those highs, but regulation and consistency are key, not stressing too much either. 300's are not good, but not horrible compared to the 600s! 85 is not terrible either, just a bit low but not so low that he had a reaction plus you got right to it. You are making progress give yourself a break (and a pat) !