Switching From Vetsulin to Humulin N

[deboone8269]

Re: Switching From Vetsulin to Humulin N

The vet tech is correct only technically... the NPH solution is 2.5 times more concentrated than the Vetsulin solution. There are 100 units of insulin in a mL of NPH and only 40 units in an mL of Vetsulin.

But.....

All that means is you give more fluid to give 15 units of NPH than you give to inject 15 units of Vetsulin.

Most dogs require about the same number of units when you switch. Vetsulin suggests, when switching a dog from NPH to Vetsulin, to reduce the dose about 25%. So that's what I would do when switching the other way... IF the dog is already fairly well regulated.

If the blood sugar is still extremely high when the switch is made, I might not decrease the number of units much or at all.



Sorry they were apparently confused about this and confused you as well.

We can help. Please fill us in with as much detail as you can.

Breed
Weight
Date diagnosed
Diet
Vetsulin once or twice a day?
NPH is given twice a day, yes?
how you're monitoring his regulation
results of any curves or other tests the vet has done.

Natalie

I need some clarification please, I just switched from Vetsulin to the Humulin my dog is perfect on the Vetsulin at 8 2X daily....now we have just gone to the Humulin due to all the recalled Vetsulin...my Vet told me to continue using the same needles 40 but instead of the usual 8 to give only 5. Is this correct???? Please Help...my little baby has been so perfect on Vetsulin this is not making me fell very secure. Thank you for your help with this.... Debbie

[k9diabetes]

Re: Switching From Vetsulin to Humulin N

Hi Debbie,

I created a new thread for you so we can answer your question. And given the concern about the syringe conversion, I also emailed you.

Natalie

[bontemp]

Re: Switching From Vetsulin to Humulin N

We were on Vetsulin for 18 mos. with Black Magic Minature Schnauzer with seemingly good results. Two things happened nearing the end of this time - one, we knew that Vetsulin was disappearing from the market and we were dreading the switch to Humulin-N, and two, Magic developed a hind leg weakness that got progressively worse and he began losing muscle mass. We went thru batteries of tests, trial medications, a trip to a veterinary teaching university all w/o a concrete diagnosis regarding the hind leg weakness - (Cushings was ruled out too). Then the clock wound down on the Vetsulin supply and we were forced to switch to Humulin-N in the midst of the other problem.
But here we are, four weeks into the Humulin N therapy, and, although we're just getting past some reluctance to eat normally, Magic's energy level has returned, the hind leg weakness is fast fading, and he's beginning to gain weight. What happened - was Vetsulin the cause? Anyone else had a similar experience?

[CarolW]

Re: Switching From Vetsulin to Humulin N

In effect, I think you're answering your own question, or, so it appears, from your report. I believe firmly in taking observable data and at least assuming your observations are reasonably accurate, going by those data.

So, to summarize, Magic did well on Vetsulin for a time, then something seemed to go wrong with Vetsulin, perhaps confirmed in a sense by the FDA and the withdrawal of the approved status for it - at which time, Magic developed the hind leg weakness while still on Vetsulin. Then you were forced to switch to NPH insulin, and after a time, Magic began to improve.

These are anecdotal data at best, and it would be wrong, from a logical point of view, to say there's a definite causal relationship between the changes of insulin and Magic's improvement.

All the same, I tend to infer a causal relationship, which can always be tested again later - THEORETICALLY - we surely wouldn't conduct such a test on purpose, by putting Magic back on Vetsulin and then once more changing to Humulin-N!

BUT - if you take the weight of the experiences of our forum members here, more and more, it seems Humulin-N or Novolin-N - the NPH insulins - do well for our dogs, perhaps, for most, better than does Vetsulin (or Caninsulin), which is exactly the same stuff as Vetsulin.

Please pardon me for playing "schoolmarm," it's a game I play with myself - but it also seems to me a useful game at times, as it helps me make decisions for my dogs to play this kind of game!

At least, we do the best we can with our dogs, and it's always good to be taking notes on what is going on - or writing them here to the forum, to share with others!

I'm happy for Magic and you that Magic is doing better!

Fri, 13 Aug 2010 20:38:09 (PDT)

[peggy0]

Re: Switching From Vetsulin to Humulin N

Forbin never was completely regulated on vetsulin. it took me months to adjust food, treats, exercise etc to get within an 'acceptable' level, but we always thought he was just ultra sensitive and he would be what natalie calls 'wobbly', meaning you never knew when his levels were going to go up and down. I dreaded switching to NPH after all that work, however, was pleasantly suprised that he did well on the humulin and his levels were much more stable to the point where i cut back on testing by about 50%. his levels were in a good range and were consistent. I do think that vetsulin was the problem.

[bontemp]

Re: Switching From Vetsulin to Humulin N

Daisy's story is one that I'm sure brings concern to all of us who have pets on an insulin regimen. We're very sorry for your loss. When Black Magic was switched over to Humulin N he was on 12 units 2x/day Vetsulin. His weight was 21#. The vet said to start with 6 units 2x/day Humulin N, monitor the blood sugar (have meter and kit) and increase the dosage no more than 1 unit over a 3 day period as req'd. In the meantime his glucose ran very hi, at first "off the scale" of the meter. Now we're at 10 units 2x/day and his glucose is settling down around 225, more or less. We intend to remain at this dosage for a while then have the vet run a glucose curve himself to confirm ours. Strange thing to us is that he absolutely refuses to go near the W/D dry and canned nor the R/D that he previously ate. Now it's wheat bread, sometimes bananas, canned meaty dogfoods and dry treats. can't explain that but his strength and energy level are improving and at 13 y.o. we're just happy that he's eating.

Update - 8-30-2010
Black magic stopped eating again - we must have an array of ten different foods i.e. baby foods, dry and canned pet foods, filet mignon (raw and cooked) but the only thing he'll go near is canned R/D and that has to be hand fed. My wife outsmarted him, kinda, but wrapping cold R/D around better food like the steak and other foods - then our vet asked us to try the drug Mirtazapine in tablet form. It's for nausea and depression according to the Internet - what a difference in the last few days - much improved appetite, ate four times/day in last two days and today ate a cup of the dreaded dry W/D in addition to two other meals and the days not over! Any one else have experience with this drug?