Karelian bear dog Spirit

[Megrock77]

Re: Bad Eating habbits - suggestions welcom

Hello,
Well, I don't really know what the thought is behind his theory. The vet said zero means she doesn't have any sugar and thus the insulin is high? I do not test with a meter, I know this is generally frowned upon, but the cost is too much for me so it's not really an option --right now. When she was continually testing zero she had a hypo incident, he wanted her to test consisently between 100 and 500 on the diastix scale (I don't know if that is the same as ketostix). I do understand it's not an "at the moment" reading but he felt this was sufficient for reading her sugar.
When I spoke with him today, the new game plan is to change her dry dog food; he thought maybe she just didn't like the Hills w/D? I've read as much online today that many dogs dislike and stop eating it. I bought Wellcore weight mgmt and she ate it w/o hesitation, but it could be because she's starving. Tomorrow morning will be the true test to see if that does the trick. Maybe for her that is too high? I'll let you all know what happens.
I appreciate ALL of the feedback, keep any thoughts coming!

[Ladybug]

Re: Bad Eating habbits - suggestions welcom

Hi Megan,

Diastix only measures sugar levels, keto-diastix measures sugar and ketones. That's the only difference.

Best of luck to you on her new diet! Hope tomorrow morning is better for the both of you.

Will be watching for your updates.

Linda/Ladybug

[k9diabetes]

Re: Bad Eating habbits - suggestions welcom

If you get a meter at Walmart and buy the strips from them, I think the cost of urine and blood glucose testing would come out about the same and you would get much better information. The problem, as you know, with urine tests is they don't tell you anything about the blood sugar under about 180. A zero test could be blood sugar of 170 or 30 and you can't tell the difference.

But, and this is really important... no one here is required to test blood glucose or should feel frowned on if they don't. Some people don't want to test. Some dogs won't stand for it. Some folks go crazy with the information and can't put the meter down so they just have to back away! There are reasons not to test.

People bring it up so often because there really is no substitute for it in terms of what you can find out.

Where you had zero urine tests and hypo episodes, testing blood sugar at home would have told you how low the blood sugar was going on a daily basis and could indicate ways in which her diet or routine could be adjusted to give her better regulation. It's way less expensive than a curve at the vet.

There are periodically discounts on meters, rebates that cover the whole cost, and sometimes even free meters offered by various makers so the meter can cost little to nothing. I never paid more than about $40 for any meter but the AlphaTrak. Several of my OneTouch Ultras were free after a rebate that covered the entire cost.

And then the strips can be bought online or if you use the Walmart meters they are pretty affordable too.

And you don't have to do tons of tests every day or even test blood sugar once every day. Because it gives you better information, you probably could replace daily urine tests with one good curve every couple of weeks and actually give her better regulation in the process.

It may be that there are other reasons you don't want to test blood sugar at home. I just want to share what it can give you in terms of information and that the expense doesn't have to be great if expense is the primary concern. I also want to acknowledge that a dog's blood sugar regulation can't be as tight without the kind of monitoring that blood checks provide.

So if you decide to stick with urine tests - totally okay! - you probably will have to go with urine tests showing 250 to avoid hypoglycemia. You let the blood sugar in general run higher for safety.

Natalie

[Noodle]

Re: Bad Eating habbits - suggestions welcom

You might want to keep your eyes peeled for free meter offers over the next 2 months. I've noticed that many pharmacies and discount stores start offering tremendous sales on anything that people can claim on their federal medical withholding accounts. Those expire at the end of the year and they know many people have money left over and are looking to spend it, since those accounts are "use it or lose it". I myself usually end up on a medical item spending spree December 31st.

I don't know if any other pharmacies do this, but we have had coupons in our last few boxes of syringes for a free Walgreen's meter. They are always for the TrueTrack, which is what we use for Noodle. I order the strips through Amazon and can get a box of 100 strips (2 vials of 50) for about $33. The price on Amazon frequently changes so I try to check daily. I got my last 2 boxes for $31.

Like Natalie mentioned, not trying to force the issue. Just wanted to let you know that there are some very cost effective options available since the information you get from BG testing is so much more useful and saves you a lot of money (no paying for curves or spot checks at the vet ) as well. Once Spirit is regulated, there is fairly minimal testing. It's not like humans who have to test many times a day, every day, and adjust their insulin accordingly. I test Noodle before both meals and do a spot check in the middle of the day, for my own piece of mind.

It's good to hear she ate the Wellcore. Hoping for the same success tomorrow morning.

[eileen]

Re: Bad Eating habbits - suggestions welcom

With joining Abbott's Promise Program they still offer a free meter along with a membership discount on test strips.

http://www.myfreestyle.com/fs/d/en_U...romise-program

[Megrock77]

Re: Bad Eating habbits - suggestions welcom

Wow you guys are really great - this is fabulous info! I'll keep my eyes out for some deals in the next few weeks/months and we'll see what happens with testing her at home. I'm not completely opposed to it, but I do have my reservations.

She did eat well for me this morning (insert a hallelujah here) ... hopefully she will continue to eat for me with this small change

I have an appointment with the vet tomorrow morning to have them test her BG via the meter to see how we are doing. I'm hoping for some positive results!

**Funny story, I am in the pharma/marketing industry and I work on the ADC Promise Program physician detail aids, I never even THOUGHT about using a human meter?! Maybe I can use some of my contacts to get a freebie haha! My vet told me that the human meter would need to be calabrated a certain way in order to be utilized. What am I missing here?

Thanks again to all, keep those fingers crossed that we found some food she'll eat - consistently.

All the best to you,
Megan & Spirit

[eileen]

Re: Bad Eating habbits - suggestions welcom

Wow you guys are really great - this is fabulous info! I'll keep my eyes out for some deals in the next few weeks/months and we'll see what happens with testing her at home. I'm not completely opposed to it, but I do have my reservations.

She did eat well for me this morning (insert a hallelujah here) ... hopefully she will continue to eat for me with this small change

I have an appointment with the vet tomorrow morning to have them test her BG via the meter to see how we are doing. I'm hoping for some positive results!

**Funny story, I am in the pharma/marketing industry and I work on the ADC Promise Program physician detail aids, I never even THOUGHT about using a human meter?! Maybe I can use some of my contacts to get a freebie haha! My vet told me that the human meter would need to be calabrated a certain way in order to be utilized. What am I missing here?

Thanks again to all, keep those fingers crossed that we found some food she'll eat - consistently.

All the best to you,
Megan & Spirit

Wow, talk about having the tools right at your fingertips...

MANY, many use human meters to watch the trends in their diabetics. It is recommended to take your meter (be it animal validated or human meter) to run comparisons with your vet so to see the variences in the different ranges.

Some of us who are using the animal validated, Alpha Trak have gone to using the Freestyle LITE test strips in our meters which work wonderfully and at about half the cost for the strips.

Even if you don't choose to test on a daily basis simply having the meter, and knowing how, can someday be a lifesaver. Better to have the tools at hand and not use them than to be scrambling one day with needing to know immediately where the bgs are.

Our dear Carol did not test her sweet Kumbi on a regular basis but months before he passed there were health issues that required careful monitoring...Carol had the knowledge and capability to test so was not overwhelmed with then needing to learn how in the midst of a crisis.

[MaryLea]

Re: Bad Eating habbits - suggestions welcom

Don't know if this is usable info for you, but since I work parttime, I make soup ahead of time to freeze and later thaw to take with me. Last night, I dribbled one teaspoon of the juice from a chicken-veggie soup over Ruffles' kibble and warmed it briefly. All of a sudden, she didn't mind eating the remainder of her dinner! Helped me because I'm not experienced enough to know what to do when she doesn't eat all her food.

[Noodle]

Re: Bad Eating habbits - suggestions welcom

My vet told me that the human meter would need to be calabrated a certain way in order to be utilized. What am I missing here?

Most vets are kind of missing the big picture when it comes to testing our dogs at home. You wouldn't be testing Spirit and then adjusting the insulin dose daily based on that reading. Testing is to give you the big picture of how your individual dog reacts to food, insulin, and activity. You form that picture as you accumulate tests over days and weeks.

For instance, some dogs blood sugar drops with activity or excitement. My dog, Noodle, is one of them. He isn't afraid of the vet - quite the contrary! He gets SO excited that his blood sugar drops as much as 100 points. Because I know this through testing, I can give him extra food on appt days and schedule the appt for a time I know his insulin doesn't typically peak. Very useful info since it prevents him from having a hypoglycemic incident. With this info I also know that spot checks or curves done at his vet are pretty much useless since it doesn't reflect how his body reacts during a normal day at home. My vet knows this as well, so she doesn't even bother suggesting it.

Some dogs BG increases from excitement, stress, or activity. That requires a different approach.

Complete accuracy of the readings is not as important as finding out the level they are off from true readings, which you find out by taking it with you to the vet and comparing it to their in house lab machine. You would test your dog at the vets with your own meter, using whatever site you decide on (lip, callous, etc) and have your vet use that same blood sample to run their test. Then you compare. If your vet's machine says 250 and yours says 220, then you know that (in that range) your machine reads approximately 30 points lower. The general consensus on this board is that the higher the blood sugar, the further the numbers tend to be off. But that's OK, because the pertinent info is that they are higher than you would like.

When you get into the lower range, the differences tend to shrink. That's when accuracy becomes more important. Thankfully, it's also when the meters tend to be more accurate. I work from home and have a really flexible schedule, so I tend to let Noodle run a bit lower than some people are comfortable with - in the 80-120 range, with most of that spent hanging in the 90s. But I do that based on TONS of previous testing and the fact that I'm home to monitor. When I know he will be alone, I run him a bit higher so I don't worry while away.

I, like many folks here, use Noodle's lip. It doesn't work on every dog, but you would be surprised how many people thought there was NO WAY their dog would tolerate a lip stick and then found out they didn't mind a bit, so it's worth a try. The inside of a dogs lip has very few nerve endings, so they barely notice. I've tested my dog while he was asleep, while doing an overnight curve, and he didn't even open his eyes, lol.

Like Eileen mentioned, even if you don't decide to test on a regular basis, having the needed supplies, knowledge, and a bit of experience could be life saving in the future. If Spirit ever starts to act strangely, you can grab the meter, test, and know right away whether there is a major problem. This has proven to save dogs lives on more than one occasion and many costly trips to the emergency vet for others, so it's a very useful and cost saving skill to have in your back pocket.

On a food note, sometimes a little sprinkle of parmesan cheese can work wonders to re-spark an appetite. It was a life saver early in Noodle's diagnosis when his numbers were soaring and he lost his appetite for the first, and only, time in his life.

[patb]

Re: Bad Eating habbits - suggestions welcom

Hi! Go to [url]www.myfreestyle.com and you should be able to get a free meter and a discount card for the test strips. Also go to Hocks for cheaper test strips. I pay around 30.00 for 50 strips. Don't tell them its for a dog let them think you need it. On using the free style on me and the Alpha trak on Star I use the free style strips so what I did is I tested me on both and the difference was 100 higher on the Alpha Trak so now if I have to use mine on Star I know around what it will be, not saying they are all the same just I know what mine are. This might help you. Good luck as I'm still learning.
Pat and Star

[eileen]

Re: Bad Eating habbits - suggestions welcom

Hi! Go to [url]www.myfreestyle.com and you should be able to get a free meter and a discount card for the test strips. Also go to Hocks for cheaper test strips. I pay around 30.00 for 50 strips. Don't tell them its for a dog let them think you need it. On using the free style on me and the Alpha trak on Star I use the free style strips so what I did is I tested me on both and the difference was 100 higher on the Alpha Trak so now if I have to use mine on Star I know around what it will be, not saying they are all the same just I know what mine are. This might help you. Good luck as I'm still learning.
Pat and Star

Pat,

If you take the Freestyle Promise Program membership card alomg with a script from your vet to Walmart you will get a discount of $25.00 off a vial of 50 strips or $50.00 off a vial of 100 test strips.

I just bought, with the member discount, 100 Freestyle LITE test strips at Walmart for $54.00.

[MaryLea]

Re: Bad Eating habbits - suggestions welcom

We are just beginning our search for a better meter and strips. Will definitely check this out.

Thanks for the heads up!

[Megrock77]

Re: Bad Eating habbits - suggestions welcom

Thanks everyone, I just went onto the site and requested my meter. We are back to not eating this morning; eating well at night though, I just don't know what to do. Tomorrow I'm going to try and give her wet food only in the morning... let's hope this avenue works. I'll keep you all posted.

Thanks again!

[CarolW]

Re: Bad Eating habbits - suggestions welcom

I'm going to observe here what I believe worked well for me, for Kwali (not diabetic) and Kumbi (diabetic), and now Camellia (not diabetic). I LIKE the diabetic feeding schedule, as it has many advantages, including allowing medication to be given either with or without food.

Not sure whether my principle of getting myself up a full hour before the dogs' breakfast, and fussing around in the kitchen - with food (both for me and the dogs) helped them eat in the morning. I DO believe it was effective in getting them to eat in the mornings.

I'm so long retired that I don't mind being on that schedule every single day of the year. It's just something I've done over the many years I've had dogs. And I don't have OTHER live animals (well, sometimes cats) living with me - nor children - do they qualify as wild animals? - no, but live, yes.

So the demands on me have certain limitations others may not have. That means I have no idea whether my suggestion might be useful or helpful. Oh, yeah, nor do I have a spouse in the house to please!

In effect, the principle I work on is that the BodyBrain, even if diseased (with diabetes), finds it easiest when scheduling of needs-meeting is predictable and regular. Of course, various illnesses can foul that. (So we do the best we can.)

A bit of macabre humor - Kumbi died JUST before his breakfast-time on 8 June past; otherwise, I'm sure he would have eaten as usual.

Mon, 15 Nov 2010 07:36:14 (PST)

[Megrock77]

Re: Bad Eating habbits - suggestions welcom

Well, we do have a morning routine, I get up at 5:30 and start getting her food ready, I MAKE her get out of bed by 6a if she's not up yet; nothing has really changed...only that she doesn't seem interested in food (her dog food) early morning anymore. I'm at the point where I'm starting to think I may have to start making human food (chicken or something) for her breakfast. I really don't want to get into doing that (for fear she start wanting only that in the evenings) but I'll do what I have to do I guess.

Thanks for the advice!
Megan