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Old 11-13-2016, 05:18 AM
Kasulke Kasulke is offline
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Default My dog's curve shows a spike

Hello,
This is my first post.
Our dog was diagnosed with diabetes this summer. She is a 6 year old, white mini poodle. She started having accidents in the house and gaining weight. We had the vets do three curves over three weeks and then bought our own Verio one-touch meter to do it ourselves. I got her stable at 8 units in the am and 9 units in the pm. At that she was coming in at 15 before breakfast, dropping into the 5-8 range for most of the day and ending the day at bedtime around 13. Her symptoms had all disappeared. We left her on that for about a month when she started having accidents in the house again. But now it's almost as if there is a sticky, sugary consistency to her urine. So I did a curve yesterday and she started the day at 29, dropped to 6 mid morning after breakfast, spikes way up to 30 mid day, when down to 10 after suooer. I'm doing another one today and already her ore meal number is at 31. What does this mean? I expected her to stabilize for more than a few weeks. The vet said that once we got her on a stable curve we would need another curve run for 6 months. It was only because of her accidents that we ran another curve this weekend.

I'm confident that the meter works fine and if my research is good the. The Verio one-touch is good to use on dogs.

I'm concerned on how to adjust her insulin because she does come I to the ideal range after her shots. If I increase her dosage she may drop dangerously low. But her high morning glucose and that massive spike midday (without any snacks) is alarming.

Thank you for any advice.
Chris
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Old 11-13-2016, 05:36 AM
Kasulke Kasulke is offline
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Default My dog's curve shows a spike

I tried posting this already, but I don't see it...shirt version:

6 year old white mini poodle diagnosed this summer.
Doing our own curves with a Verio one-touch meter that I researched as good for use with dogs.
Git her stabilized a month ago.
Now her urine accidents are back so I ran another curve.
She is spiking really high in the morning and midday. She's fed morning and evening, no snack midday.
What does this mean? Our vet said once she stabilized Wed only need to curve her twice a year. But symptoms promoted a curve now already and these spikes have me alarmed.
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Old 11-13-2016, 06:40 AM
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CraigM CraigM is offline
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Default Re: My dog's curve shows a spike

Welcome to the forum.

It might be helpful if you post the times & results of todays curve for folks to view.

Any other medications beside the insulin? How much does she weigh? What insulin are you using? What are you feeding?

Your posts will be delayed until your membership ia approved by the forum owner (Natalie). I've sent her a note telling you are here, so hopefully you will be able to post right away later today.

Craig
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Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9 years.

Last edited by CraigM; 11-13-2016 at 07:30 AM.
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Old 11-13-2016, 08:10 AM
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CraigM CraigM is offline
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Default Re: My dog's curve shows a spike

Although uncommon, Somogyi Rebound http://www.vetsulin.com/vet/Monitoring_Somogyi.aspx looks a little like you have described. This is why I asked for you to post the results of your curve. Just post something like this:

6am 5.0 fed & injected 8 units
8am 6.2
10am 7.6

I'm guessing you are in either Canada, or the UK, because you are listing readings in mmol/L. Don't get confused when you see other members (from the U.S.) post numbers in the 100s. The U.S. uses a different unit of measure: mg/dL. The simple conversion is to multiply a mmol/L reading by 18 to get the equivlent in mg/dL. No problem using either method

From what I've read (could be 100% wrong) this can happen if the insulin dose is too much. The over dose drives the blood glucose downward. The body panics at the unnaturally fast reduction of blood glucose and the body releases stored forms of glucose which may drive the blood glucose to a high level.

I'm NOT saying this is the case, just something to think about.

Craig

ps. The forum is sometimes fairly quiet on weekends, but do check back in and tell us what's happening.
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Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9 years.
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Old 11-13-2016, 08:39 AM
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jesse girl jesse girl is offline
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Default Re: My dog's curve shows a spike

It does give the impression of to much insulin is being administered

Large unstable swings in blood sugar can point to a dose being to much at the least you have an imbalance between food and insulin which in a way as being to much insulin in a period in time where food is not producing sugar needed to keep sugar stable

My jesse is very sensitive to the size of the dose given so actually i have to split it into 2 at dinner time

I dont see the weight of you dog could you post that . that helps to determine if the dose your are giving is possibly larger than average and helps to determine what a starting dose should have been

Now for my jesse her starting dose actually was to much so what we have learned lumping all dogs into one box doesnt always work so that's why we sometimes have to do quite a bit of figuring at home
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Jesse-26 lbs - 15.5 years old - 10 years diabetic - one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack - 3 shots of Novolin a day sometimes Novolog or r as a correction to higher sugar but that is rare. total insulin for a 24 hour period is between 8 and 10 units of NPH insulin depending on her fasting number

Last edited by jesse girl; 11-13-2016 at 08:41 AM.
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  #6  
Old 11-13-2016, 03:13 PM
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amydunn19 amydunn19 is offline
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Default

Hi and welcome! What are you feeding and how much? In addition to her weight, this will help us figure what could be happening.
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Maggie - 15 1/2 y/o JRT diagnosed 9/2007, Angel status on 6/20/16. Her mantra was never give up but her body couldn't keep up with her spirit. Someday, baby.......
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Old 11-14-2016, 07:16 PM
Kasulke Kasulke is offline
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Default Re: My dog's curve shows a spike

Hi! She is about 13 lbs which is healthy for her and she is on the Prescription Diet by Hills both wet and dry.

I ran her curve again yesterday and she had the same sharp spike in the afternoon before her supper.
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Old 11-14-2016, 07:19 PM
Kasulke Kasulke is offline
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Default Re: My dog's curve shows a spike

Thank you. She is 13 lbs which is healthy for her size. She getting 8 units in the am and 9 units at night. She had a good curve on that, but then started with the accidents again a few weeks later and that is when we discovered this spike.
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Old 11-14-2016, 07:27 PM
Kasulke Kasulke is offline
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Default Re: My dog's curve shows a spike

Ok...not sure how these quick replies are posting...I will carry on.

Here is what she did on the weekend:
Saturday
29.1 8 am pre-breakfast at 8:15 - 9 units given with breakfast (should have been 8, but my step-mom made a mistake)
6.9 11 am
10.4 1 pm
31.2 4:30 pm pre-dinner at 4:45 - 9 units given with supper
8.0 7:30 pm
5.9 10 pm

Sunday
31.6 8 am pre-breakfast at 8:15 - 8 units given with breakfast
8.9 11 am
8.3 1 pm
30.4 4 pm pre-dinner at 4:15 - 9 units given with dinner
5.2 10 pm

I read up on the Rebound you mentioned, and I guess that makes sense. However, we needed to go to 8 units in the am and 9 units in the pm to keep her in the healthy range of 4-10 for most of the day. Any less insulin and she was starting her day over 25.

Would you suggest easing off? If so, both doses?
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Old 11-14-2016, 07:36 PM
Kasulke Kasulke is offline
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Default Re: My dog's curve shows a spike

I should mention that she looks like she's gained some weight in the last week or two as well. Just her belly is more round. Her energy levels have remained the same. She always acts like a puppy.

I've been using the Verio One-Touch human glucometer. I think I read that it can show the values higher than they actually are. If that is the case then it means she may in fact be dropping to that 3.8 or lower level from her morning dose triggering he Somogyi rebound. Does that sound right? The article you linked says that the correction for the Somogyi rebound would be to cut the dose by 50%. It also suggests that it may take a few days for it to stabilize after a SR, so would it be reasonable to run another full curve 4-5 days after adjusting the dose?

I really want to manage this myself as the vet costs a fortune, and quite frankly she even looked at the insulin package insert when trying to calculate how much to increase her does when we first got started on all this. After 3 curves and $2K we switched to monitoring at home.
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