1 Year Sugarversary!

[Judi]

Re: Jackson the Chocolate Lab.. new and saying Hi!

call first. I think the methyl is harder to find than the other one. I think some vet offices carry it

otherwise you will be able to find it online.

Judi

[KristinMarie717]

Re: Jackson the Chocolate Lab.. new and saying Hi!

I got the Advocate Pet Meter today and it's so nice to see what the "real" numbers are.

I checked his level right before dinner and his second insulin for the day and it was 279.. On the freestyle human meter it read 159. Quite a difference!

[amydunn19]

Re: Jackson the Chocolate Lab.. new and saying Hi!

Patience is a virtue with diabetes - it usually takes a few months to get them settled in on the correct dose. With intermediate acting insulin, you can't make a ton of adjustments - it generally takes time to see results. With that said, I do agree that your dog was started a bit on the low side so hopefully, you can let him settle in for a while at this dose. The leg weakness may take some time to resolve and seems to be common with the bigger dogs.

[Eddie]

Re: Jackson the Chocolate Lab.. new and saying Hi!

As Judi says, we had to deal with quite severe leg weakness that developed a short time after our dog, Eddie, was first diagnosed. It does seem to be a bit of a Lab thing - Eddie is half Lab and many of the dogs we have seen on here with leg weakness seem to be Labs or Lab crosses.

Eddie@s weakness got better quite slowly as we gradually got his blood sugar regulated. We also gave him lavish quantities of B12 which may also have helped. We have no way of knowing if it helped but in the same situation I would certainly give it again.

Our vet had no real input on the B12 decision or dosing. She sort of suggested giving him the recommended daily human dose of B12 methyl but we gave him a lot more than that. We got the vet to give the standard B12 injections that they give for deficiency but we also gave him lots more human tablets that we got online.

It is horrible to see your dog unable to stand, walk etc, but it is so very much worth giving them time to get through it. Eddie reacted by sleeping almost the whole time. For many days he literally hardly left his bed (and couldn't get out of it or stand without our help - it was a major event if he decided he wanted to stagger over to the water bowl!). Our vet gave us a very gloomy prognosis - said he wouldn't live beyond Christmas 2012 - but he did in fact get better and he is still running around today.

As Amy says - it all takes time and patience!

Antonia

[KristinMarie717]

Re: Jackson the Chocolate Lab.. new and saying Hi!

Hi Antonia!

Luckily Jackson hasn't gotten to the point of zero mobility but he is certainly sleeping all the time. He still gets pretty excited to eat and will follow me around while I get his food ready. Shortly after he plops right back down for a nap.

I called my Vet about the b12 and haven't heard back. I'm probably going to go ahead and order it anyway. I'm sure it won't hurt him.

I finally got a pet meter and his sugar is staying in the mid to high 300s consistently from before his dinner until the morning and that's when I am noticing his crashing harder than normal. It is truly breaking my heart!

I am so happy to hear that your vet was very wrong about Eddie! My initial vet I felt was trying to talk me out of treating Jackson all together. So glad we went for a second opinion.

I really cannot wait to have my buddy back. We are at day 6 of insulin and 16 units twice a day. I'm pretty confident that needs to be increased ASAP as he is weighing in around 95lbs if he hasn't lost anymore.

Thank you for all the information! It's really great to know I'm not alone!

[Eddie]

Re: Jackson the Chocolate Lab.. new and saying Hi!

I would be a bit inclined to get some B12 ordered anyway; I found our vets were unaware of the study suggesting it helped with diabetic leg weakness. We got all our information from people on this forum. I got the B12 Methyl from Amazon and it was quite inexpensive (here in the UK).

I am no expert on dosing but I would just caution about raising his dose rapidly. You're at a fairly early stage and they do need time to acclimatise to any change in dose - or in his case, to the whole new way for his body to receive insulin. It is very frustrating to have to do it slowly but it is worth it because it is quite easy to overshoot the correct dose and find that you are having to deal with scary low numbers.

Antonia

[amydunn19]

Vets, for some reason I can't understand, tend to think that if treatment requires some effort, that clients won't be interested in treatment. My vet always said if he pressured people to home test their dog's blood, some would just euthanize their dog than go to extra trouble and responsibility. I find it hard to believe but I have to feel like he has had experience with this type of thing with people who don't look at dogs as family. I can't fathom it myself because my dogs have always been family.

You are doing great with Jackson and if you keep at it, you will see improvement.

[KristinMarie717]

Re: Jackson the Chocolate Lab.. new and saying Hi!

Vets, for some reason I can't understand, tend to think that if treatment requires some effort, that clients won't be interested in treatment. My vet always said if he pressured people to home test their dog's blood, some would just euthanize their dog than go to extra trouble and responsibility. I find it hard to believe but I have to feel like he has had experience with this type of thing with people who don't look at dogs as family. I can't fathom it myself because my dogs have always been family.

You are doing great with Jackson and if you keep at it, you will see improvement.

I could never do that. It makes me sick to my stomach even thinking someone could to that. Jackson has been by my side to comfort me if I was sad and he gives the best hugs! He will come right next to me and nudge his way over until I give him a big bear hug!

I was sitting on the floor last night and he came over and nudged my arm for a good rub down. That was a first for the past week! His numbers are pretty consistently in the high 300s. I still haven't heard back from the Vet so I think Sunday we will bump up his insulin to 18units twice a day.

Amy, I read your Maggie's story last night and I was a blubbering mess. I am so sorry for your loss. It sounds like you were the absolute best momma for your girl.

[KristinMarie717]

Re: Jackson the Chocolate Lab.. new and saying Hi!

The Vet finally called me back about the B12 which she didn't recommend... I may do it anyway.

She brought up Cushings again... Ugh. She said if his sugar isn't regulating on the insulin it could be something else causing the issue. She did say that she doesn't normally even check the liver level until it has been a month after he started insulin.

She suggested I keep him at 16 units for another week (Patience patience patience) which I will do. I wanted to increase it this weekend but I won't.

I just don't believe he is on high enough of a dose. I want to avoid all the crazy testing for Cushings if I can.

I already have spent close to $1000 on this already between the first Vet visit (which was a waste) and his medication. Not that money is a factor... I will do whatever I need too but I don't want to waste anymore money with unnecessary testing.

Not to mention my refrigerator crapped out on me two days ago! When it rains it pours.

I don't want to anger his Vet by going against what she is saying but I feel in my gut he needs a higher dose. She didn't even seem impressed I was home testing! I wanted a gold star LOL

If The X-ray they did didn't show any abnormality in his liver size shouldn't that be a good indication it's not Cushings?

[Judi]

Re: Jackson the Chocolate Lab.. new and saying Hi!

so I just went back and looked at your first post. Is this the same vet that didn't want to treat the diabetes initially because she thought he had cushings?

If so, I don't have a lot of faith in her understanding of the 2 diseases. I'm not totally ripping her. My first vet (my favorite vet-she wound up having about 4) didn't want to deal with cushings so he didn't even test for it. His tech told me and we had to go to another vet to deal with it. His rationale was that it is so hard to treat. He was 2 months away from retirement but it is doable.

Anyway, a cushings test would be a huge waste of money right now. The cushings tests are only 80% accurate in normal situations and all they do is test a dog's cortisol levels. A dog who has unregulated diabetes is stressed out and his cortisol levels might be high anyway.

When my dog had full blown cushings, no treatment yet, she was eight pounds and getting 7 units of insulin twice a day. Once her cortisol was regulated her insulin needs went to 3.5 units twice a day.

So yes, it does make a difference but Jackson is seeing some progress with his blood sugar moving down a little and he isn't even close to a huge dose yet.

hold strong. vets don't like to give us gold stars until much much later. They worry that we will make stupid decisions on our own. their training is all over the board for diabetes so you just have to find a vet who will listen to you and work with you.

Our cushings vet said he went to a conference and 4 different experts had 4 different methods for treating diabetes. crazy.

sorry for the long post but hang in there. The ACTH test for cushings is about $300 a pop. I think Jenny had 3 or 4 of them the first year.

Judi

[amydunn19]

It is way too early, in my opinion, for your vet to be worried about resistance and cushings. Jackson is not even on a starting dose - .2 unit per pound is conservative - some vets go with .25 unit per pound, but I think that is dangerous. I think I would up the dose.

There are times when dogs don't need much more than .2 unit per pound but labs usually need a bit more. Most dogs do need more than a starting dose.

It is hard to go against a vet but Maggie's first vet overdosed her so with her next vet, I was in no mood to play. I just went in and told him that I was going to test and I was making the decisions. Luckily, he was more than willing to work with me. You will be the expert on Jackson especially as you continually test and learn.

Unfortunately, many vets are just not well versed in diabetes. It is really hard to manage this disease as a vet when you only get limited time with the dogs. They tend to lump them all in one category and if the forum has taught us anything, it is every dog is unique and their responses are not always by the book.

[KristinMarie717]

Re: Jackson the Chocolate Lab.. new and saying Hi!

I plan on bringing all my notes and meter results in after his first glucose curve because quite honestly, I feel like I can get this regulated at home. As long as its not going crazy.

I do like that his numbers are pretty steady, no super highs and then super lows. Its high but atleast its steady. It was 313 when I got home, so its definitely working... just doesn't have that umph to get it down where needs to be.

Judi, this is the second Vet. If I ever stepped foot in the first Vets office again, it would not be a pretty sight to see LOL She prescribed Jackson antibiotics, not confirming he even had an infection and sent us home. I just looked at the receipt She charged me $125 for Baytril. She told me to keep giving it to him even after she confirmed there was no infection and how high his blood sugar was. We stopped that immediately after I figured out she was full of it.

I think that may be why I instantly want to throw up as soon as I hear the word Cushings. When I got off the phone with the first Vet and she told me he more than likely had Cushings, I was convinced I was making the decision to treat or euthanize my dog. She made it sound like it was the worst possible thing to happen and I could never afford the treatment.

What an emotional roller coaster ride this last week has been. I'm not sure I have ever cried so much. Which is crazy because I'm not a crier but holy waterworks!!

[KristinMarie717]

Any experience with Fromm?

We are entering week 3 since Jacksons diagnosis and I think my anxiety is starting to subside... Only a little lol

I was curious if anyone has tried Fromm dog food? Currently Jackson is on the Hills WD prescription food. I got the 30lb bag so we have plenty to go through. I really would like to have both my dogs on the same food. I read some good things about Fromm for joint health. Jacksons sister Ella has hip dysplasia so joint health is top priority for us.

We are still working on getting Jacksons sugar down. He is still riding around the 300-350 range. The vet didn't want me to go over 16units until his curve but I did bump it up to 17 after being at the 16 units twice a day for a little over a week. I don't think the vet knows I am home testing atleast 3x a day

Any suggestions are appreciated!

Kristin

[amydunn19]

Re: Any experience with Fromm?

I don't know if anyone has used Fromm for diabetes. I know from having a small pet supply store that they do have good quality food. My biggest "problem" with Fromm is that most of the recipes have so many protein sources and several carb sources. It is almost like "we like them all so we are putting them in it" - I personally like keeping things a bit more simple. I always had a dog who was so sensitive allergy wise and to certain ingredients because of pancreatitis, it would have never worked for her. I think it is helpful when you are dealing with medical issues to narrow things down when you have a single protein and carb source or as few as possible.

I would go for low fat food just because of pancreatitis. Once they have had it, the are always prone to it. If you are worried about joint health, I would look for a quality supplement if the food you choose doesn't have what you feel you need.

[Rover]

Re: Any experience with Fromm?

Sound's new to me. Ever since my dog been diagnosed with diabetes I change his food to this best dog food for dogs with diabetes
until now I think I'm doing great for his treatment feel like there's nothing wrong with him, that he lives like a normal dog. Thankful because my vet told me about this kind of information.