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Help! Sugars will not go down (newly diagnosed)

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  • Help! Sugars will not go down (newly diagnosed)

    Our Alaskan malamute was diagnosed about 5-6 weeks ago. We've tried to follow the vets instructions to a tee but have yet to basically see any movement in his sugars. Very frustrating.

    We are on humulin n. Started at 24 units or something and now we are up to 32. Our vet has just kept upping his dose every week. Again, unfortunately no real movement.

    Food wise we've tried a few different things over the weeks. Almost all his life he's been on orijen 6 fish. We were told to try a different food since the sugars weren't going down. Hill's diabetic food is what we were prescribed. He ate that for a few days and then wouldn't eat it anymore. We are now on acana senior. It's apparently good for blood sugar and stuff like that. Our boy is 7.

    Anyway, long story long...any ideas of what we can change? I'm pretty confident we are doing everything right. Feed only twice a day, followed by the insulin. We administer it carefully, keep the insulin properly stored...

    We have the alpha track 2 to monitor from home. He basically sits at like 29-33 sugars.

    We did go to a holistic vet who suggested CBD oil. We've been adding that once a day for about a week now, with no improvement.

    What can we do??? Different insulin maybe?

    Any suggestions/help would be very much appreciated. Thank you!

  • #2
    Re: Help! Sugars will not go down (newly diagnosed)

    Hello,
    Even though I have been managing my Max's diabetes for 18 month now I still consider myself a rookie compared to the senior members on this forum.
    This forum has been my very best source of information/advice that I have found anywhere.
    I didn't see anything stating your dogs weight so I don't have any thoughts as far as the dosage, but it sounds like there has been a substantial increase that hasn't helped....if it hasn't already come up you might want to inquire to your vet about "Insulin Resistance" The definition I found was "an excessively short duration of action due to rapid metabolism of insulin." I'm sure curve testing would have to be done to see if this is the problem.
    Once your dog is regulated managing his diabetes will be a lot easier then you think. I was so overwhelmed at first. Hang in there, things will get better!
    Max is a 17lb terrier mix. Born 1/2014.
    Diagnosed diabetic 3/2018.
    8 units Novolin N twice a day.
    Nature's Recipe Grain Free

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Help! Sugars will not go down (newly diagnosed)

      Take a deep breath. First thing to know is that this takes time, lots of time.
      Changes in blood sugars will be slow and gradual, took me 2 years to reach regulation. Might take you 6 months, every dog is different.
      And dogs can handle high sugars better than humans, so don't worry about getting sugars down right away.

      And consistency is very important. Don't keep changing foods because every change means the body is getting different amounts of carbs, etc.

      Stick with one dose of insulin for at least a week, do a full curve, and then adjust dose based on that. Little by little each week.

      And as you progress you'll have setbacks and see things that don't make sense; it happens. Don't panic or try to always compensate. If you chase the numbers and always makes changes every time you see something you don't expect, there goes your consistency. Be methodical.

      Increasing dose every week is not necessarily the thing to do. Your vet might be expecting dramatic changes in sugar way too quick. It doesn't work like that.

      How much does your dog weigh? A normal starting dose is 0.5 units per kilogram (2.2 lbs).

      Pick a food that is moderate fat and protein, with good carbs. Then stick with it.
      Last edited by Raysaint; 10-23-2019, 05:10 AM.
      Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Help! Sugars will not go down (newly diagnosed)

        Originally posted by Raysaint View Post
        Take a deep breath. First thing to know is that this takes time, lots of time.
        Changes in blood sugars will be slow and gradual, took me 2 years to reach regulation. Might take you 6 months, every dog is different.
        And dogs can handle high sugars better than humans, so don't worry about getting sugars down right away.

        And consistency is very important. Don't keep changing foods because every change means the body is getting different amounts of carbs, etc.

        Stick with one dose of insulin for at least a week, do a full curve, and then adjust dose based on that. Little by little each week.

        And as you progress you'll have setbacks and see things that don't make sense; it happens. Don't panic or try to always compensate. If you chase the numbers and always makes changes every time you see something you don't expect, there goes your consistency. Be methodical.

        Increasing dose every week is not necessarily the thing to do. Your vet might be expecting dramatic changes in sugar way too quick. It doesn't work like that.

        How much does your dog weigh? A normal starting dose is 0.5 units per kilogram (2.2 lbs).

        Pick a food that is moderate fat and protein, with good carbs. Then stick with it.

        Thanks for the reply. I guess I did leave out some key details there.

        He's about 105lbs (47kg). Humulin N. We started at about 23 units or so. Now up to 36 units (just a day into that).

        We sort of had to try and change his food up because he wasn't eating the stuff that the vet prescribed. Plus, everyone else we spoke to (pet food stores and such) said that food was not very good for him. Currently have him on Acana Senior.

        I just find it weird that we haven't seen his sugars move down at all. It's borderline getting worse.

        There has been some talk about insulin resistance or even changing up his insulin, but the vet has ruled that out for now because he does have room for more units on the current insulin and again the option to try another insulin as well.

        We did go see holistic vet (might as well!) and he did sell us some CBD oil (we are in Canada) to see if that may help. Obviously it seemingly has not.

        As rookies, we just see his sugars so high and we get concerned that if we don't control them, he's going to start developing other issues (due to the diabetes).

        We are definitely trying to view it as a marathon more than a sprint, but easier said than done! Especially when his sugars haven't budged.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Help! Sugars will not go down (newly diagnosed)

          Where are you injecting him?

          The scruff of the neck is where they have a tendency to least absorb the insulin, where the flank and an inch or so off the spine towards the chest has a better absorption.
          Daisy 12 1/2 y/o 20lb Mini Schnauzer - 115g chicken breast, 45g chana dal, 55g green beans all chopped in a food processor, 20g Hills Perfect Weight, 1 tbs pumpkin, 8 units Novolin N q12h. Other meds-1/4t d-mannose twice daily, 1 Proviable DC daily, 1 multivitamin, 1/4t ground eggshells each meal, 1200mcg methyl B12 daily, 5mg zyrtec daily

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          • #6
            Re: Help! Sugars will not go down (newly diagnosed)

            Like I said, it takes time. His sugars may not move hardly at all for weeks, especially if you are changing things.
            Going from 23 to 36 units right away is a bit drastic. Looking for quick results is not the usual process and probably won't work. I'm surprised a vet would go that route.
            Dogs don't get most of the complications like humans, they can withstand high sugars for long periods while you get them regulated. Just watch for ketoacidosis or pancreatitis. Any vomiting after eating can be a sign.

            Once you get into a consistent routine, sugars will slowly start to come down. But remember every day can be different, don't panic if one day is not the same as the other day. What you're looking for is a range of sugar numbers, that is consistent over a week or two, then make your insulin adjustment, repeat. Steady as she goes, ride it out and know it will come.
            There's a lot of things the body needs to adjust to and things will be erratic for a while.
            Being diabetic myself, I was my dog's worst enemy, trying to always correct sugar numbers, tweaking things all the time. Then I learned to not manage his like my own. Patience, and no delusional expectations.

            I'm in Canada also, GTA area. Humulin N insulin is only $30 a vial at Shoppers. Vets will want you to use their insulin and their food, but it's not mandatory.
            Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Help! Sugars will not go down (newly diagnosed)

              do you have any recent curves you can post
              Jesse-26 lbs - 16.5 years old ,11 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin( under the Relion name ) a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
              Jesse earned her wings on 6/21/2021

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Help! Sugars will not go down (newly diagnosed)

                Originally posted by Raysaint View Post
                Like I said, it takes time. His sugars may not move hardly at all for weeks, especially if you are changing things.
                Going from 23 to 36 units right away is a bit drastic. Looking for quick results is not the usual process and probably won't work. I'm surprised a vet would go that route.
                Dogs don't get most of the complications like humans, they can withstand high sugars for long periods while you get them regulated. Just watch for ketoacidosis or pancreatitis. Any vomiting after eating can be a sign.

                Once you get into a consistent routine, sugars will slowly start to come down. But remember every day can be different, don't panic if one day is not the same as the other day. What you're looking for is a range of sugar numbers, that is consistent over a week or two, then make your insulin adjustment, repeat. Steady as she goes, ride it out and know it will come.
                There's a lot of things the body needs to adjust to and things will be erratic for a while.
                Being diabetic myself, I was my dog's worst enemy, trying to always correct sugar numbers, tweaking things all the time. Then I learned to not manage his like my own. Patience, and no delusional expectations.

                I'm in Canada also, GTA area. Humulin N insulin is only $30 a vial at Shoppers. Vets will want you to use their insulin and their food, but it's not mandatory.
                No, we have been increasing the insulin a couple units at a time. After 6 weeks or so, we are now at 36 units with no movement.

                Our plan is to try and keep it as consistent as possible with his food and stuff. But as mentioned, super frustrating that we've seen no decrease at all to this point.

                Thanks for the information.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Help! Sugars will not go down (newly diagnosed)

                  Originally posted by Daisydog10 View Post
                  Where are you injecting him?

                  The scruff of the neck is where they have a tendency to least absorb the insulin, where the flank and an inch or so off the spine towards the chest has a better absorption.
                  Hmm. Interesting. We have been doing the neck scruff. Maybe we shall try the flank and see.

                  Thank you.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Help! Sugars will not go down (newly diagnosed)

                    Originally posted by jesse girl View Post
                    do you have any recent curves you can post
                    I'd say we haven't done an official curve but yesterday we did test his sugars 3-4 times.

                    Our AlphaTrack gives us mg/dl measurements for some reason. Two hours after his insulin yesterday he was at 660. Then 4 hours after he was at 745. Then about 7 hours 686.

                    We got the tester probably 3 weeks ago. Minus the vet visits, we've probably tested him 20 times. At different-ish intervals. We often did/do it at what we "hope" would be peak insulin working time. Our test at 4-7 hours after insulin usually reads between 525-700. We did have it fairly consistently at the 500-575 mark, but we recently switched his food because he wasn't eating the other stuff and its now gone higher.

                    We've also tested a handful of times before his second injection of the day (before he ate) and we'd get a similar reading of 500-575. Maybe a little on the lower end of that range.

                    The lowest we've ever seen it during this whole thing was like 460 or something. We had just taken him for a quick walk. But that was a one off it seems.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Help! Sugars will not go down (newly diagnosed)

                      It does appear your dog is running high but I would warn you if you dont do complete curves to determine dose adjustments that can be problematic

                      My jesse in the beginning could test 500 before shot and food ( fasting ) and in 3 hours drop to a 100 and back up to 500 a couple hours later. We determined that she was getting to much insulin causing the wide fluctuations . Now if we did not test when she was at 100 and only tested when she was 500 we would have continued to raise the dose and for a dog that was already getting to much insulin this could have been catastrophic . Thats why complete curves have a better chance catching fluctuations than just random tests

                      The regulation period is the most important depending on how you handle it may determine how long it will take
                      Last edited by jesse girl; 10-24-2019, 07:36 PM.
                      Jesse-26 lbs - 16.5 years old ,11 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin( under the Relion name ) a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
                      Jesse earned her wings on 6/21/2021

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Help! Sugars will not go down (newly diagnosed)

                        Alpha Traks are preset in how they measure, did you buy it from the U.S.?

                        Jessegirl is right, complete curves will give you an idea of the sugar pattern over 12 hours. Trying to guess when peak insulin time is is a crap shoot, it is different in every dog.
                        Testing at fasting also, just before each meal, will also help you see what progress you may be making, and it's good to compare that to nadir readings.
                        Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Help! Sugars will not go down (newly diagnosed)

                          one thing you might look into is the Acana feeding chart for the senior food. it goes by weight.

                          theres alot more meat in this dog food.

                          its possible theres too much food raising the blood sugar

                          for an active dog at 47kg its 5 cups divided by 2 twice a day
                          less active is 3 1/4 cups divided by 2

                          i would try testing at fasting
                          feed 2 1/2 cups and inject insulin
                          test 1/2 hour after to see where the food is at. then 1 1/2 hours after to see if the insulin has met up with the food.
                          post your results for us to see.

                          its important for regulation to feed the recommended mfg.s amount.

                          your doing great
                          mo
                          Last edited by Riliey and Mo; 10-25-2019, 11:05 AM. Reason: test 1/2 hour after food
                          Riliey . aka Ralphy, Alice, Big Boy
                          20 lb male. 5 1/2 nph insulin. 1/2 cup fromms. black cockapoo, dx Apr 2012 . 5 1\2 yrs diabetic. 2000 to 2017

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                          • #14
                            Re: Help! Sugars will not go down (newly diagnosed)

                            So it looks like his sugars are coming down.

                            The main/part of the issue may have been the area we were testing.

                            The vet said to change the testing site from the elbow callus might be a good idea. So we starting using the ear.

                            Today we did a check and his sugars were at about 12 from the ear. His elbow showed about 39.

                            Is this a normal thing? Is the elbow known to give high/false readings?

                            Any help would be great. Thank you.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Help! Sugars will not go down (newly diagnosed)

                              that is odd . Never heard of that . You would think blood is blood . Maybe you are getting some other kind of fluid besides blood in that location .

                              Its interesting in that if its a problem for you it could be for others and quite dangerous raising the dose to what you thought was higher sugar

                              To think is it wasn't even close from what you posted
                              Jesse-26 lbs - 16.5 years old ,11 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin( under the Relion name ) a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
                              Jesse earned her wings on 6/21/2021

                              Comment

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