Baron

[kirstin]

Hi,
I am new to the site, but found such a wealth of information! I live in a small town in Colorado and my Baron is mostly wolf and malamute. It's been about three months since he was diagnosed with diabetes, and he seems to be doing much better. His glucose is still a bit high, but we are working with the vet and adhering to a strick diet and exercise plan. I have one question though...The vet mentioned that once his sugar was under control, that we could take some of his dog food and mix it with water, bake it and make little snacks for him, which would be awesome for him. I have tried a few different temperatures, and times and wetness and thickness, and I just can't seem to get it right. Either it is too wet and that is no good because most of it molds before I can even use it, or it burns. Anyone have any ideas or come across this before? It would be much appreciated for both Baron and I!

[peggy0]

Re: Baron

Hi Kirstin and welcome to the board! Glad you are getting Baron under control. I'd love to see a picture of him. Wolves are so beautiful. I've never tried baking doggie food. I'm sure someone here has. There are several treats that dogs seem to do well with if you'd like to try some. Organix makes small dog biscuits. My dog wasn't bother by them, as well as Paul Newmans Organic Chicken or peanut butter treats. No sugar in any of these!!

[Patty]

Re: Baron

Hi Kirstin and welcome! I've not tried baking the dog food either but I've heard of people that have. What type of food are you using?

I know of one person that ground Hill's w/d up into a flour and mixed with water. Formed into small treat shapes and baked 350 for about 30 min. The same was done with canned w/d by simply taking the food and forming treats and baking. But I've never done it.

Others here use cucumber chunks, frozen green beans, small bits of raw carrot, or about a teaspoon of plain canned pumpkin frozen for treats.

Take care,
Patty

[k9diabetes]

Re: Baron

I'll bet Baron is beautiful!

As I recall... it was on an old forum some years ago... folks did as Patty mentioned and just put cookie type pieces of the canned food and baked it, not adding water. I'll see what I can find.

Ah yes... here's one:

I also sometimes took the canned food ( she was on the Hills WD and I'd slice pretty thin and bake in the oven and she KNEW they were in there (as did half the neighborhoood LOL... well not really... wasn't 'that' bad at all) Putting into the refrig first helps to firm up a bit to make slicing easier. I'd bake in a 350 degree oven , flipping several times till they were dried out and hard/cookie-like.

I did between 350-375 degree oven and the timing depended on how thick. I'd keep 'flipping' them so they'd get well dried out all the way thru.

Maybe not mixing with water and then flipping as this person suggested until well dried out.

Natalie

[kirstin]

Re: Baron

Thank you so much for all of your information, it is very helpful and having one source for all of this is even better. I updated my profile with some pictures I just took today of Baron, and his little pack sister Mittaa. She is a character! I hope to have more on the site soon enough. He is on the Hills w/d and we use both the dry and wet food and mix it together. He seem to really like that.

[Patty]

Re: Baron

Kirstin,
Your pictures of both dogs are so adorable!! I love what Mittaa's name stands for.
Patty

[peggy0]

Re: Baron

The dogs are gorgeous!!!! Baron is just amazing

[kirstin]

Re: Baron

Thanks so much, since my husband and I live in ruralesque Colorado we have a vast area in order to let the dogs run around. I will have to get a video and post it Mittaa loves chasing grasshoppers, she looks like Pepe LePeu! Baron likes chasing after the moles in the field. I get out of the walking cast in about a week and it's on to hiking in the Flatops!
Also, we are going to be switching from Vetsulin to HPN, is there any advice that you might have, or things that I should watch out for in case one or the other starts spiking or dipping his sugar? Also, are there any books or articles that I could read to further my education, I am in nursing school and my father had diabetes, but I am not sure how similar the two are?

[peggy0]

Re: Baron

Would love to see the video! Most folks here find the dosages to be the same between vetsulin and NPH. Most start off at 25% less than the dosage they are on now to see how they do for 3-4 day and then go up gradually, until the BG levels are good. I don't know of any books for diabetes, Natalie and Patti may be able to help there, but there is an incredible amount of info right here on the forum. Anytime I've googled to find something, it always brings me to this site which is how I found it in the beginning.

[Patty]

Re: Baron

Hi Kirstin,
Let me go back and ask some basic questions so we can help you better...

- How long has Baron had diabetes? Sounds like a new diagnosis?
- How much does he weigh?
- How many units of Vetsulin is he currently on?
- Have you had a recent curve done? What do his numbers look like now?

As Peggy said, most have cut back the dosage by 25% when switching, although depending on how close to regulation he currently is, I've seen Natalie recommend a 15% reduction instead.

A couple of good books to look at would be "Dogs, Diet, and Disease" http://www.amazon.com/Dogs-Diet-Dise.../dp/0967225329

Another one that's written for humans but is a good tool, especially if you're in nursing school is "Using Insulin" http://www.amazon.com/Using-Insulin-.../dp/1884804853

As far as the similarity between human diabetes and canine, there are some but dogs play by a different set of rules . There are insulins that humans use that don't work well for dogs. But dogs are essentially like Type 1 diabetics. The beta cells of the pancreas have been destroyed thus the need for insulin injections.

The main page of this website is full of really great information as well http://www.k9diabetes.com/

If you have a Walmart near you, they sell Novolin NPH under a contracted rate for about $24-28. You can have your vet write a script if needed for Relion Novolin N. You'll also need new syringes that are made for U100 insulin due to the difference in concentration. (Vetsulin is a U40 insulin). If you are using 30 units or less, many companies make U100 syringes with 1/2 unit marks for easier dosing.

Hope that helps! Feel free to ask questions. You'll get a lot of great info and support here.
Patty

[k9diabetes]

Re: Baron

Hi Kirstin,

As others mentioned, canine diabetes is equivalant to Type 1 in people as dogs lose their beta cells to an autoimmune attack. Occasionally a dog is diagnosed early enough that the beta cells can continue to function for a while (honeymooning) but most of the time they are all completely destroyed by the time the dog is diagnosed.

Insulins work somewhat differently in dogs too. Dogs often don't do well with long-acting insulins and are usually given intermediates, such as NPH. Mostly the duration on NPH is good. It can sometimes be shorter than 12 hours, as it was with our dog.

And some folks (not many here right now) have combined NPH with Regular or Novalog/Humalog if their dogs get a big post-prandial blood sugar rise after eating.

But a lot of dogs do really well on just a meal and injection of NPH or Vetsulin twice a day. It's kind of miraculous really how well so many do on such a simple regimen.

The other good news is that dogs don't suffer a lot of ill effects from diabetes. The main one they do suffer is cataracts, which are very very common. But they don't have the strokes, amputations, etc. that many diabetic people experience. They tolerate less than perfect blood sugar pretty well.

The main advice I would have about switching is DON'T let them use the AAHA protocol, which unfortunately used a protocol meant more for cats than for dogs and had people start over with a very very low dose. With cats, the switch in insulins is to one that is very different in action from Vetsulin so it makes sense to "start over." But that's not the case for dogs, who usually process both insulins similarly.

So I would not want to reduce his dose more than 25% when making the switch.

Natalie

[kirstin]

Re: Baron so far...

I just recently changed Baron's Vetsulin to Humulin and he seems to be doing quite well on it. When I started changing him, he did drink alot more water, and have to go to the bathroom more, but now seems to have stabilized. He is acting happier and bouncing. We are going for long walks, ran and shine, and he seems happy to be doing that. I tell you how wonderful it is to have him doing well, but in the back of my mind monitoring him and I am worrying that he will take a turn and his eye sight will start going. My husband and I will have to deal with that when that happens. For now I am just enjoying the companionship and the kisses that go both ways with it...

[Patty]

Re: Baron

Hi Kirsten,
Glad to hear Baron is doing well. How many units of Vetsulin was he on? How many units of NPH now?

Good to hear from you
Patty

[k9diabetes]

Re: Baron

It's great to hear that Baron is doing so well!

I too would be interested to hear how you went about it just to add that to the collective wisdom here regarding changing over.

Natalie