Madigan Doesn't Read the Book

[standifs]

HELP! My wonderful 9 year old Min-Pin, Madigan (Madi for short) was diagnosed 5 weeks ago with diabetes. I am not totally unaware of diabetes in animals since 18 years ago I had a cat who was diabetic. He was a wonderful guy and giving him insulin was a cinch.

Madi, however, is another story. Though she is only 11 1/2 pounds now, she screams, wrenches herself away, and does everything short of biting me when it is her "injection time". Since my husband is disabled, he cannot help me give her her injections. Also, because of my work hours, I have to feed her at 4:00 a.m. and 4:00 p.m. and I don't know anyone who will come over at 4:00 in the morning to help. Every day, twice a day, she becomes so upset that I'm afraid she is going to have a massive heart attack and die in my arms.

I am giving her her injections but I only have a window of about 1/2 a second to inject. I've found that placing her on the counter and wrapping my left arm around her while using my right to give the injection is the only way I can get the insulin in. However, I have such limited time, before she manages to struggle her way almost out of my grip, that I am not happy with the results. I've resorted to grabbing a clump of skin/fat and injecting as quickly as I can. If I don't, I lose the opportunity and must let her rest and then put her through it again. Then, of course, she is doubly upset and it is even harder.

Madi lives in a household with two Border Terriers (one male and one female) and three cats. I lock the two Borders in their crates prior to giving Madi her injection since the female (Brython) actually thinks Madi is getting special attention and even tried to attack her. My male, Baxter, simply gets concerned when he hears Madi's shrieks. (By the way, she shrieks even before I've had a chance to do anything more than place my arms around her.) Obviously, this child is quite the drama queen!!

I've talked to my vet and all of my vet techs and tried everything they've suggested but to no avail. I give Madi treats and praise after her injections and even have some rice cake pieces on the counter for her to nibble on as I'm giving her the injections. Being the hard head that she is, she won't touch them until I've finished. (I've also tried the "letting her eat her food and doing it then, but Madi is a walker when she eats -- moving around the bowl.)

I adore my Madigan and want to always inject her properly but I don't believe I can be when she is moving so much. Yes, I've tried wrapping her in a blanket (but then she twists herself up in such a way as I can no longer even see her injection area to inject into.)

Everyone tells me that she'll come around in time, but having already lost a beloved cat to diabetes, I don't feel that I have time. When diagnosed, Madi's glucose level was 586. After being prescribed 2 units twice a day and 10 days later, it had only dropped to 465. At that point, my vet increased her dose to 4 units twice a day. We had improvement -- down to 245 and considering my precarious technique, I was really pleased. However, her last reading was 310, so now she is receiving 5 units twice a day.

DOES ANYONE AT ALL HAVE A BABY LIKE MINE? I'VE SEARCHED AND SEARCHED AND I'M DESPERATE FOR ANY IDEAS THAT MIGHT CALM MADIGAN DOWN. I'VE EVEN RESORTED TO SEARCHING FOR STRAIGHT JACKETS FOR DOGS. (I'm not crazy -- just very desperate!)

P.S. She's not mad at me after her injections, she still sleeps in my arms and treats me with the same wonderful love as ever. I owe it to her to overcome her tremendous fear and get this thing nailed down so that she may live a long and happy life.


Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Madi's Mom, Suzanne

[jesse girl]

Re: Madigan Doesn't Read the Book

welcome to you and your good buddy what you are going through sounds very tough and you have gone through alot of ways to make it work

my jesse didnt give to much trouble with shots but at the beginning she was not happy with it and now after a year she actually looks forward to it .

maybe try when your home going through some dry runs with madi on multiple occasions no shots given but going through the motions on how you want to do it and stay constant with madi she may not know when the real thing is coming when its time . Its possible she may accept it faster and you may become calmer from doing the dry runs I know it hard to stay calm when things aren't working

others on the site do have dogs with this problem and they have come up with some creative solutions is your dog naturally hyper or calm in general?

[standifs]

Re: Madigan Doesn't Read the Book

What a great idea, Jesse Girl! I will try it as soon as I get home this afternoon. And yes, Madi is very very hyper. She's quicker than a locomotive and faster than a speeding bullet! When she was first diagnosed, my sister died the same day and one of my wonderful vet techs took her for the weekend and even she could barely give her injections.

My vet has said for years that my "kids" never read the book. Madi is definitely not an exception!

[jesse girl]

Re: Madigan Doesn't Read the Book

condolences for the loss of your sister I lost my brother and it can be very difficult

I am very impressed with your attitude with all that is going on I sense your positive energy and will do whats necessary to get the job done.

[standifs]

Re: Madigan Doesn't Read the Book

Thank you so much -- I'm very determined to help Madi live a wonderful life. She is truly my little munchkin.

[SandyL]

Re: Madigan Doesn't Read the Book

Hi Suzanne and Madi and welcome!!

You will be able to get ALOT of great help here on this forum....so many helpful and truly concerned people that just want the best for our pets!!

Have you tried giving her shot on her side? My chihuahua hated them when I gave them in the scruff. I switched to the side, right in front of her hip. she tolerates this much better and she actually gets excited when you ask her if she wants her shot because she knows she'll get her favorite treat....a piece of duck jerky!

Sandy

[CarolW]

Re: Madigan Doesn't Read the Book

Hi Suzanne,

My sympathies. If Madi doesn't read the book, we can read HER book instead!

I suggest beginning here:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/kwalicoop1.php

and then going through that series (NEXT button above the main picture on each page). The second page has a link to calming signals. I'd check those out. When we work on dog-terms, you'd be surprised what HUGE successes we can have, in a very short time.

I completely agree with the idea of walking-through the injections without actually injecting.

Then also, you could check your injection technique, from the link in my signature on painless injections. The most crucial items are, I think, warming the insulin (in the syringe, not the vial!) to well ABOVE room temperature - more nearly to dog-body-temperature.

Also, turning the bevel up (covered in that series) helps, and so does using the calming signals.

Please keep us very closely posted, and you'll probably get other suggestions as well.

While you work with Madi, remember to breathe. Dogs REALLY notice when we hold our breaths, as, typically, we ALL do, when feeling a bit nervous, or anticipating too much - so take at least three deep breaths as you begin. Tell yourself to stay calm! Although it's really hard to fool our dogs, we can, with some planning ahead, kid ourselves into remaining surprisingly calm! And when we do that, the DOGS stay calmer.

It will probably help, too, if you change the environment before giving the injection - make things look different to the dog from how they were looking when Madi was struggling. Perhaps choose a different location in the house in which to give the injections - on the couch? on your bed? on a mat on the floor? anything to change the PICTURE for the dog.

And anything you can do to dump any use of force will help greatly too. Shutting the other dogs away IS a very good idea; you can't be interrupted while injecting. Do you have a separate room you can close off? I hope so.

I love your title for the thread - noticed it right away - very descriptive!

Please report back; we'll be watching!

Wed, 23 Mar 2011 11:23:21 (PDT)

[standifs]

Re: Madigan Doesn't Read the Book

No, Tiggy's Grandma, I asked my vet about other areas like that and she was afraid that Madi didn't have enough fat in that area. However, I'm gonna check her out when I get home. Maybe she's got a little more now (she did gain a pound in the last month -- RELIEF!)

Thanks so very, very much -- all of you!

[pgcor]

Re: Madigan Doesn't Read the Book

Hi Suzanne! I can so relate to you!!!! Look at my avatar! I have a min pin as well and he is also very hyper. They are a handful OMG!

I had a difficult time giving shots too! Pip had to be muzzled, wrapped in a blanket, laid on top of...you name it.

But, it's been nearly four years now and he is as used to getting his shots as any min pin can be LOL!

He is very food motivated, so I was saved by that. I put him on the kitchen counter with a few treats and then I can inject him. Till this day, he stops and looks at me as I inject. Just letting me know...

I believe they do get used to it, because they have to. My only regret is that I could not relax enough to pass that along to Pip in the beginning.

I was so nervous that I would do something wrong and then Pip would go blind, and it would all be my fault...five out of seven days I would go to bed crying.

Let me just say this, Pip still has his eyesight and I messed up plenty. Carol has been helping me with calming signals with Pip and it's helped a great deal for other issues that the little Dickens has. So do read the information she gave you.

I just wanted to tell you that I know this will get better - even for dogs like ours that must be peeled off the ceiling.

Be persistant and as calm as possible and I will pray to the big min pin in the sky that Madigan calms down quickly.

Pam

[farrwf]

Re: Madigan Doesn't Read the Book

• I am giving her her injections but I only have a window of about 1/2 a second to inject.
• I've resorted to grabbing a clump of skin/fat and injecting as quickly as I can.
• I give Madi treats and praise after her injections and even have some rice cake pieces on the counter for her to nibble on as I'm giving her the injections.
• DOES ANYONE AT ALL HAVE A BABY LIKE MINE?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Madi's Mom, Suzanne

Yo Suzanne!

I believe Otis would run a close second in the uncooperative class. He's made me into a master needle bender.

I have my best results with him after he eats, and is looking for his customary "dessert". The "dessert" is some diced chicken mixed with several Alpo Liva Snap fragments.

He gets real "busy" like he's in a competitive eating contest. I stroke him while this is going on and randomly will tent up areas of his skin. He'll stop chowing down for a nano second and back off when I "tent" ... then right back to the chow down.Eventually he becomes kind of used to my actions (because he doesn't want to be bothered with anything while he's focused on chowing down). Then when I feel like I have a 1 - 2 second window, I "tent & inject".

No bent needles the last 4 times ... and, we're still friends when it's done.

When do you plan on testing the blood glucose at home?

[jjefferjo]

Re: Madigan Doesn't Read the Book

Welcome
Madigan's Mom, I loved reading your intro and have not stopped laughing out loud.

Eddie and I are cheering you on. I have no advice to offer as I still consider myself a very fortunate student of this wonderful forum and DD

[standifs]

Re: Madigan Doesn't Read the Book

A tiny bit of progress -- YEAH! I did several dry runs with Madi yesterday before her afternoon dose and included much soft singing as I went along.

When it came time for her injection, while she was somewhat calmer, she resorted to her usual tactics of squirming her way up my arm and, klutz that I am, the injection was too shallow and shot right thru her skin. SHAME ON ME.

However, this morning, went a tiny bit better. Instead of singing during our dry runs and injection (cuz I'm really tone deaf and Madi almost howls when I sing), I simply continued to talk sweetly to her. While she still tried to make a break for it via my arm, she was quiet long enough for me to inject properly. My, she is just too smart for her own good (and mine). Seems she is always one step ahead of me.

Also, am studying all of the calming signal literature, because, while I thought I was the calm one and Madi was the hysterical one, I can readily agree that my signals have been less than calm!:}

Love to you all -- This too shall pass and Madigan will learn that her mama will never do anything to hurt her.

[CarolW]

Re: Madigan Doesn't Read the Book

SO glad you're reading up on the canine calming signals. They make a world of difference. Also, I'm pleased that it seems you're recognizing how to continue your work with Madigan while remaining really calmer, yourself! That, too, will make a world of difference!

HOW you approach, and make contact with, your dog is what does the trick.

You could also check to make sure the injections remain painless (see the link in my signature - can't remember if I suggested that before).

Thu, 24 Mar 2011 06:15:38 (PDT)

[k9diabetes]

Re: Madigan Doesn't Read the Book

Oh goodness... welcome to the Diabetic Min Pin Club!

Nine times out of ten when I see someone posting about having trouble injecting, it turns out they have a Min Pin. They are notorious for being uncooperative with shots and many of them absolutely won't sit for home blood glucose testing.

Still, I don't know of a single dog who wound up being absolutely uninjectible. Eventually everyone I know has found a way to make it work. You're determined so I'm sure you will find something that works well enough for Maddie.

Hang in there... with the prevalence of diabetes in Min Pins and their tendency to be a handful, the Diabetic Min Pin Club is likely to grow.

Natalie

[standifs]

Re: Madigan Doesn't Read the Book

Oh, Natalie -- what a relief to hear that Min-Pins in general are a bit "testy" shall I say.

Your words of encouragement, as well as everyone else's are so very much appreciated.