My dog Jake - trying to get insulin adjusted

[kfazio]

My dog Jake who just turned 7 in November was just diagnosed with diabetes last week. It is all so overwhelming, we started shots 2x a day last Monday night and this wednesday he is scheduled to go in for his first curve. We haven't started on a special food yet but last night he was so itchy and I wasn't sure if it could be from the injection site or the insulin or the needle or something unrelated. I called the vet they said to give him a benedryl and see how he is today. He is better then he was but still biting at his feet. Let me know if this has happened to anyone else

[MaryLea]

Re: can you have an allergy to insulin?

Welcome to the forum! Altho' Ruffles had no reaction to insulin, my gut feeling is that it's unrelated. However, there are many people here with much more experience who may be of help. I'm sure they will chime in with suggestions.

Meanwhile, know that you have come to a good place for help. Glad to have you here.

Mary

[Judi]

Re: can you have an allergy to insulin?

Look for Tami, her user name is Sydney & Sophie's Mom. I think one of her dogs is allergic to the insulin most of us use and she has to get the Cansulin and it is expensive and difficult. I hope it is something else. Any treats you are giving him?

[Soaphie & Sydney's Mom]

Re: can you have an allergy to insulin?

Hi,

Yes, Soaphie is on vetsulin/caninsulin. We attempted to switch her over to NPH and she basically "collapsed" and wouldn't move for ANYTHING - super lethargic and just - again - she wouldn't move. We quickly changed her back to Vetsulin/Caninsulin. Who knows how long that will last as there are huge difficulties getting it.

Not sure if anyone else here had allergies as you describe (itchy feet etc).

[jesse girl]

Re: can you have an allergy to insulin?

my jesse may have a mild reaction to nph as tami described no itching more of a reaction to the insulin like being lethargic by reducing the amount of insulin seemed to improve things for her but of coarse it is just speculation

has anything else changed since diagnosis. medications other than insulin environmental you said food is the same . it is not unheard of to have a delayed reaction to something that was given at the vets

has he ever had an allergic reaction before diabetes

[kfazio]

Re: can you have an allergy to insulin?

thank you for all the quick responses, I am new to all this and sure I will have many questions

I spoke to my vet a few minutes ago and she said maybe I gave too many injections in the same area or maybe I can get latex free needles she told me to give him another benedryl and see ...

I just want him to be ok

and he has not had any allergies prior

nothing else has changed .............

[k9diabetes]

Re: can you have an allergy to insulin?

The insulin contains a fish protein, protamine, that can be an allergen. A few dogs have also been allergic to preservatives in insulin products.

If it turns out to be the NPH, there are some other options for insulin.

Natalie

[MaryLea]

Re: can you have an allergy to insulin?

thank you for all the quick responses, I am new to all this and sure I will have many questions

I spoke to my vet a few minutes ago and she said maybe I gave too many injections in the same area or maybe I can get latex free needles she told me to give him another benedryl and see ...

I just want him to be ok

and he has not had any allergies prior

nothing else has changed .............

Jake is a cute dog! And your explanation ("nothing else has changed") shoots my gut feeling in the foot! HaHa.

Glad you are in touch with your vet.

Watching and cherring you on,

Mary

[CarolW]

Re: can you have an allergy to insulin?

I'll be watching with interest, since my un-diabetic dog, Camellia (rescue Havanese) has atopy - generalized environmental allergies - and my vet has put her on a special shampoo and spray combination, by Douxo (pronounced Duke-so) - which, used faithfully, actually replace the missing skin barrier that allows this generalized allergy! The idea, I gather, is fairly new (at most, about two years old) - and after four weeks of bath/spray, I begin to see reduction in Camellia's allergies.

But what you have going with Jake seems different. Thought I'd mention Camellia's situation in case it might have a distant bearing.

You can't be injecting in exactly the same place each time, are you? It's wise to rotate location of the injections anyway, to prevent build-ups of scarring.

If I figured things out right, you've had the diagnosis for about a week now, and will go day after tomorrow for the curve (Wednesday). So, a week of injections.

If it were me, I'd be thinking about what Jake might have come in contact with with his feet. Or, any food change in particular?

Camellia is on antihistamines essentially all the time; has been since summer (Northern Hemisphere :-)), and I've been able to REDUCE her antihistamine intake slightly just since yesterday.

I guess the only way to find out if Jake is allergic to the insulin is to CHANGE the insulin. Which could be slightly awkward.

Hope the Benadryl helps for now, and that you and your vet manage to figure out what is causing the itchiness.

Here's a Big, Fat Welcome to you and Jake, to this wonderful forum!
Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:30:19 (PST)

[kfazio]

Re: can you have an allergy to insulin?

@ Carol W - thank you for your response I can use all the help I can get right now

I have a question about where I give the shots I have been mostly focusing across his back in the shoulder area as he doesn't flinch as much as other locations I am trying to move from right side to left side to middle but same vacinity is this bad? I don't want to cause scarring or make him uncomfortable

[Judi]

Re: can you have an allergy to insulin?

how big is Jake and what size needle are you using? The most Jenny got up to is 7 units so we use the absolute smallest needle on her.

[CarolW]

Re: can you have an allergy to insulin?

You're using good areas to inject - well, "approved." Here's one "map"; which I made from the Intervet site for Vetsulin a few years ago:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/backscruffinj.php

There's another on the BD site for diabetes in dogs; I can't find the link from here; it's a bit more flexible than mine. I think there's a link to it in the Answers section here, probably under Injections.

You could also read through this series:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/painlessinj.php

I'd pay special attention to warming the insulin (in the SYRINGE, not in the vial), and to making sure the bevel on the needle is up when you inject):

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/bevelup.php

Judi's remarks (Poodles) are also potentially really useful; here's a detailed description of the syringes I used with Kumbi. Kumbi and I both liked them a LOT! I think I hurt Kumbi twice in 3.5 years of twice-daily injections!

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/syringes1.php

Do keep asking questions as you need to! SOMEBODY will have some kind of answer for you and Jake.

Tue, 29 Nov 2011 07:01:12 (PST)

[CarolW]

Re: can you have an allergy to insulin?

I forgot to say - avoid injecting right over the spine; the Vetsulin web site said move away from the spine about 2 cm (an inch or so).

The syringes I pointed you to aren't necessarily the best for all small dogs, but USUALLY they make a big, big difference to the dog; therefore, to you also! And those half-unit markings are wonderful, when you want to be adjusting the insulin doses in half-units, or even, as my vets often did, in quarter-units (eyeballing the quarter-units).

Is Jake a Mini-Schnauzer? He looks rather like one, but I can't really tell from that small a picture (your Avatar). And how much does he weigh, approximately? Just curious.

I surely hope you get the itchy-feet problem worked out! I'll be watching!
Tue, 29 Nov 2011 07:09:59 (PST)

[kfazio]

Re: can you have an allergy to insulin?

thank you for the injection map - we are using a very small tip needle u100 is the size.

he went for a BG curve yesterday and numbers are still too high even though they didn't show them to me he has to do another one in 2 weeks. they want him to try hills wd food and keep to 370 calaries a day total

we also have to increase insulin from 6 to 8 units 2x a day

yes jake is a mini schnauzer he weighs 25 lbs

the itchyness seems to be better ........

[Judi]

Re: can you have an allergy to insulin?

I'm glad the itchiness is better. If you can, ask for the #'s of the curve. 2 units is a big jump but I'm no expert or a vet. Are you testing at home yet?

You just want to be careful of lows. where we are re-regulating my Jenny, her vet wouldn't let me raise her a half unit until I had #'s at 11:00am for a couple of days because that is when she used to drop to her lowest. Even though her fasting #'s were 300 or so consistently he wanted to be careful since she went so low a few weeks ago.

Judi