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Old 04-10-2012, 05:16 PM
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Timothy Timothy is offline
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Default Diabetic Rottweiler/Meter & Curves

Hello this is my first post. My dog is Dutch and he is a Rottweiler. He is 8 years old and was diagnosed with diabetes in October 2011. He weighs about 115lbs right now and is on 30 units of insulin every morning and everynight at 7.
After his 7th birthday he didnít have the energy he used to and slowly got more depressed during the day hiding away in his favorite sleeping spot. Eventually he started getting really worn out fairly quickly when we would go outside to run and play, his appetite wasnít the greatest sometimes he would even walk away from his food, and was getting a pot belly. He really started to show his old age and even started growing grey chin hairs and always had to go out in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom. He spent I would say about 80 percent of his time sleeping during that period. He had so little energy that when we would walk around the room he would not move his head and only move his eyes which had become a characteristic of him. I have had many rotties in the past and they all only lived to be about 8 or 9 years old before they went down fast from problems.
Dutch went to his vet appointment in October 2011 and looked good/got all his shots but I still felt something was very wrong with him. About 2 weeks after that he started getting really sick and never would get out of his bed except for food/snacks/bathroom or if he had the energy to get up and say hi when someone got home, but during that 2 weeks he didnít even want to get out of bed for that, I would walk in the room and he would open his eyes and wag his tail fast. He would stare me at me for hours when he was awake. He started losing his appetite, vomiting, drinking a lot of water and urinating very frequently. He also was losing all his muscle mass on his body. He urinated in the house one night which he never does (normally he will jump on my bed and wimper in my face until I wake up) and he had to go so frequently that I started to keep him outside with his blanket. (We have a large porch gates.) He would lay in his dog house all night awake and his staring me in the eyes non-stop was worrying me. His legs began trembling all the time and one day they were like spaghetti noodles when I was walking him. When I was walking him he had a grand mal seizure that lasted probably 3-5 minutes of him kicking and when he came to he was very out of it, couldnít walk, and his tounge was hanging out the side of mouth for another 10 minutes or so. I had to hold him still because he kept trying to take off running but wouldnít of been able to. Im always home, have a small house and the dogs are always with me so this was the first time that that had happened to that extreme.
We took him to the emergency vet to see what the outcome was and his blood sugar was somewhere above 550 mg and his keytones were really high. They gave him fluids and we took him home for the night and started treating him the next morning. Everything was great after several vet trips, his health was coming back, and we go for long walks every couple days for exercise trying to gain back muscle which hasnít really actually been working but he still loves it. He is just getting a fat belly. He also has a full grey chin now since his 7th birthday. Sometimes he has to go to the bathroom really bad in the morning, and sometimes he dosenít. His urine is always clear in the morning and after his shot sometimes it gets a lot darker. His nose drips when he sleeps. He eats about 2 cups every morning and afternoon at 6:30 and gets his shot at 7:00.

Everyonce in a while he dosen't look so good but then is ok after a couple days. He started acting weird again the other day and staring me in the eyes for long periods of time. He started having to go to the bathroom really bad in the mornings/still drinking a lot of water and sleeping. In the afternoon he was really worn out looking. So I only take him for long walks when he looks ok. But about a week ago he didnít look good one day and started acting weird, about 1 oíclock at night he woke me up making a racket dragging his legs, running into things, and falling down making a loud slam. My other rottie was running around also so I didnít know what was going on. I got up and Dutch was standing in the kitchen and he turned and looked at me but when he went to walk towards me he stumbled and his back legs were kicking and trembling. I held him still for a minute and he would quickly dart his head like he seen something and watch. After he seemed fine I took him outside but he didnít have to go that much, and he kept darting his head and listening like he was seeing things. Then he started locking up, shaking, and couldnít walk right. So I rubbed his side for a few minutes and talked to him but he couldnít walk and it took a really long time to get him back inside and after he layed down for a little while he was ok. We Took him back the next day to the vet, they wanted to do a Fructosimine test and full blood work, but we just had the fructosimine test done and will get the bloodwork done probably this weekend. They said his Fructosimine test was good. I think it was around 400-450. So for a couple days at around 1 oíclock in the afternoon and at night he was having this problem, thatís halfway in-between insulin shots. So I started giving him a small snack at this time just incase his blood sugar was falling to low. He also was acting like he was starving and was acting strange and searching for food outside which he dosent really do even after meals. I FINALLY got a glucose meter for him on monday, itís a one touch UltraMini. This week I am monitoring his curves for the first time and when we go to the vet this weekend I will bring it with us and talk to them about it to see whats up and how accurate it is.

I have been testing him right before his meal and then every couple hours after that until right before his next meal and itís also pretty much right on with his nap schedule he has going on. Last night his blood sugar was at 212mg right before he ate so I fed him a full bowl of dog food which is 4-cups so that his sugar wouldnít drop to low at 1 oclock at night again. I tested him again at about 10:30 and it was at 269mg. I decided not to stay up the rest of the night and monitor him and he seemed to feel well.

This morning right before he ate his blood sugar was at 401mg. At about 1 today it dropped down to 114mg and at 3 it was down to 104 mg and I noticed at about that time he seemed fine but a little droopy. I just tested him before dinner and his blood sugar was back up to 354mg and I fed him around 2 cups of food. Im not sure though about his curve, it seems really big. Im going to keep monitoring him the rest of the night and I have a chart on the computer for it. Im just not sure what to do though if his fructosimine tests are stable?
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:03 PM
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Patty Patty is offline
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Default Re: Diabetic Rottweiler/Meter & Curves

Hi Timothy and welcome to you and Dutch!
I'm so very glad you have a glucometer and are monitoring Dutch's levels! Congrats on home testing.

It sounds like Dutch may be having some hypoglycemia spells. If he does get too low, you can give a small amount of honey, karo or pancake syrup to bring his blood sugar up quickly. If he's not able to lick it, you can rub it on his gums.

I do have a few questions if you don't mind...
- What type of food is Dutch eating? And how much does he normally get to maintain his weight?
- What type of insulin is he on? If it's Humulin NPH, you can get this at Walmart for around $25, just FYI.
- Did the vet work up to the 30 units twice a day or was he started on that amount?
- Has he ever had a blood glucose curve done before (where blood sugar is tested just before food/insulin then every 2 hours after)?

Again, welcome to you! Anxious to hear more about your dog.
Patty
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:34 PM
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JayneN JayneN is offline
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Default Re: Diabetic Rottweiler/Meter & Curves

Welcome Timothy & Dutch

You have been through so much with your boy! I'm fairly new, so I'm not adding anything as far as advice, but giving you a warm welcome and you will find lots of support and good advice from those that have been here for some time!

Hang in there!!
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:53 PM
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jesse girl jesse girl is offline
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Default Re: Diabetic Rottweiler/Meter & Curves

i agree with patty it sounds like a low blood sugar event

if you are testing have you identified the time blood sugar is at its lowest or a full curve as patty suggested which should identify that

my jesse has seizures outside of diabetes she has epilepsy

so you definitely want to test around or before 1:00 or if you see the onset of these symptoms maybe try to get a test if possible to identify if it is low blood sugar but be careful dogs can really bite down during seizures

my jesse will rise quite substantially after a seizure so it maybe difficult to identify but you have to rule out the possibility of low blood sugar
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:55 PM
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nibbles-mommy nibbles-mommy is offline
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Default Re: Diabetic Rottweiler/Meter & Curves

welcome to you two.

has your vet ever ran any curves when the bg is tested every 2 hours from morning fasting for the next 12 hours or more? that's really the only accurate way you can raise a dose. you need to base your dose on the lowest number and adjust from there. high blood sugar can be tolerated by dogs better than humans but, low blood sugar can kill. a fructosamine test only gives an average of what the bg has been over an extended amount of time. as others here and my vet has said, you really shoulddn't adjust dosing with fructosamine tests alone. dutch could very well have been jumping higher after rebounding from the low numbers or even those large drops you just witnessed. it is called somogyi, i couldn't post the link but the info is on this site.

you can run curves at home and show them to your vet.

good luck!
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I'm Debbie and Nibbles is a 16yo beagle mix ~ Diagnosed in Feb. 2011 with Diabetes and Cushings ~ Currently at 11 units Humulin N ~ Eating Wellness canned food.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:10 PM
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SandyL SandyL is offline
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Default Re: Diabetic Rottweiler/Meter & Curves

Welcome!! I agree that it sounds like a hypo event. His body is definitely not liking those big drops in BG.

As for the fructosimine tests, those are NOT a reliable source to monitor his BG. They ONLY show an average of what his numbers were over a period of time and they have no way of indicating just how low he actually goes. Since you are now testing at home ( GOOD JOB!!) you really don't need to spend the money at the vet for any more fructosimine tests. You will have much more, and reliable results from the home testing

Looking forward to more info on Dutch!!

Sandy
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:18 PM
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Timothy Timothy is offline
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Default Re: Diabetic Rottweiler/Meter & Curves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patty View Post
- What type of food is Dutch eating? And how much does he normally get to maintain his weight?
- What type of insulin is he on?
- Did the vet work up to the 30 units twice a day or was he started on that amount?
- Has he ever had a blood glucose curve done before (where blood sugar is tested just before food/insulin then every 2 hours after)?
He normally eats 2-cups of Purina One Smart Blend Healthy Weight Formula. But the last few times ive changed it up a couple times and noted it.
He is on 30U of Humulin N every 12 hours.
I remember he started on a small amount twice a day, and everytime we went to the vet they would increase it by 2 units untill finally he was at 30U and his Glucose test came out ok.
This is the first time that I am testing him throughout the day. When we were first taking him to the vet we were checking his glucose at what was assumed to be his lowest point in the day & then after a few weeks he had a fructosimine test done & that turned out ok. He just had a fructosimine test done last week that was ok too. Im in the process of creating a log of his glucose.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jesse girl View Post
have you identified the time blood sugar is at its lowest or a full curve

This morning it was high at 401mg when he woke up and before he ate.
His lowest point was from from 1:00 to 3:30 today and his glucose was 114mg then 104mg.

Before he ate at 6:30 his glucose had risen to 354. And tonight at 9:30 it was up to 381mg.

I have not gotten the chance yet find out what his lowest point is during the nighttime.

Last edited by Timothy; 04-10-2012 at 08:26 PM.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:40 PM
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Patty Patty is offline
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Default Re: Diabetic Rottweiler/Meter & Curves

I'm glad you're keeping a log. That's a huge benefit!
I would also be sure you're measuring or weighing his food for consistency each time. For some dogs even several pieces of kibble can make a difference.

You mentioned some walks. Is there a certain time of the day you usually go? Timing can be really important for some dogs. If insulin is quite active, you can get a large drop in blood sugar. Or, if its fading, a large rise can occur. Now that you're home testing, you'll be able to see how exercise effects him.

Consistency really is key with most dogs. The more consistent you are with food, shot times, exercise, etc, the easier it can be to regulate.

It sounds like Dutch has a large swing in blood sugar from high to low point. If you are able to complete a curve on him, we'd love to see his numbers and offer help if we can. I would say if he shows signs of going too low again, I would reduce his insulin a unit and see if that helps.

Take care,
Patty
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Old 04-10-2012, 09:38 PM
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k9diabetes k9diabetes is offline
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Default Re: Diabetic Rottweiler/Meter & Curves

I'm SO glad you have gotten a meter and started testing him at home.

Given the concerns that he's on a little bit too much insulin, I would reduce his dose 1 unit morning and evening and see what happens with his blood sugar and how he behaves.

Also very important not to walk him when his blood sugar is falling and approaching a low level as exercise often drops the blood sugar dramatically.

And then if he is walked before his blood sugar hits the low point, it would be important to monitor it after his walk to make sure it hasn't dropped sharply and then goes lower still.

I'm not sure why but Rottweilers historically have tended to be somewhat inconsistent blood sugar-wise.... maybe because they are so muscular, not sure. As time goes on with your testing, it will be interesting to see what you get from him in terms of consistency.

You may find that his blood sugar would be "flatter" - less difference between the highest and lowest point - if he got just a little bit less insulin.

Natalie
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Old 04-10-2012, 09:48 PM
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jesse girl jesse girl is offline
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Default Re: Diabetic Rottweiler/Meter & Curves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy View Post

This morning it was high at 401mg when he woke up and before he ate.
His lowest point was from from 1:00 to 3:30 today and his glucose was 114mg then 104mg.

Before he ate at 6:30 his glucose had risen to 354. And tonight at 9:30 it was up to 381mg.

I have not gotten the chance yet find out what his lowest point is during the nighttime.
I think there are some serious concerns here

you have seen possible multiple low blood sugar events possibly in the process of a seizure occurring

it is simple math fasting is 401 the low was 104 that is about a 300 point drop from the high say if fasting is 300 blood sugar would be 0 or even 350 and that maybe at a 50 range very close to low blood sugar and that doesnt guarantee that the drop maybe larger on other days

you are also seeing that classic bounce back up from the body trying to protect itself with the bodies reserves of blood sugar to preserve life

the dose does need to be reduced or that drop needs to be slowed down by at least half
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