Diabetes in Dogs: The k9diabetes.com Forum
 

Go Back   Diabetes in Dogs: The k9diabetes.com Forum > Diabetes Discussion: Your Dog

Diabetes Discussion: Your Dog Anything related to your diabetic dog.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-05-2012, 12:14 PM
buddy buddy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 66
Default BUDDY

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all the excellent information!

We have a 7 year old 25 lbs miniature schnauzer named Buddy -- just diagnosed a month ago with glucose at 460. We started him on 4 units Novolin N and have slowly raised it to 6 units. We feed 2 cups presription WD in morning and 1 cup in eve with some chicken breast and 96% lean hamburger (boiled) and he is still losing weight:

Here are the latest curves the past two days:

11-03-12:
8am 600 feed and shot
10:30 127, 152, 171 took three tests from same sample
1am 252, 269 took two tests from same sample
3:30 610, 600 took two tests from same sample

11-04-12
8am 645
10:30 159
3:00 600

I was thinking too much insulin and a Somadji rebound. However, on 11-03, the glucose was only in the mid 250s by 1pm.

Also, I posted a curve below that shows results after 2 weeks on 5 units -- not much effect.


8a.m. 300 walked Buddy for 1/2 hour before the glucose test. Gave shot and food right after glucose test.
10a.m. 320
noon 432
2 pm 330 walked 1/2 hour at 3pm
4:30 450
6:00 450
8:00 p.m. 697 gave shot and food and walk 20 minutes afterwards.

I know I need more blood samples and glucose curves which I will take as soon as the Accu-Chek SoftClix Plus arrives. I take the blood samples from Buddy's carpals as it is close to impossible with the gums or ears.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-05-2012, 12:50 PM
CraigM's Avatar
CraigM CraigM is online now
Senior Member and Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 4,021
Default Re: BUDDY

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddy View Post
11-03-12:
8am 600 feed and shot
10:30 127, 152, 171 took three tests from same sample
1am 252, 269 took two tests from same sample
3:30 610, 600 took two tests from same sample

11-04-12
8am 645
10:30 159
3:00 600

I was thinking too much insulin and a Somadji rebound. However, on 11-03, the glucose was only in the mid 250s by 1pm.

Also, I posted a curve below that shows results after 2 weeks on 5 units -- not much effect.


8a.m. 300 walked Buddy for 1/2 hour before the glucose test. Gave shot and food right after glucose test.
10a.m. 320
noon 432
2 pm 330 walked 1/2 hour at 3pm
4:30 450
6:00 450
8:00 p.m. 697 gave shot and food and walk 20 minutes afterwards.

I know I need more blood samples and glucose curves which I will take as soon as the Accu-Chek SoftClix Plus arrives. I take the blood samples from Buddy's carpals as it is close to impossible with the gums or ears.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Welcome! I'm about to go out the door on errands, but wanted to say "hello".

Was that possibly a misprint on 11-3? Was there REALLY a reading at 1AM, or was that actually 1PM?

Did you give any type of snack / treat before those high 600 readings at 3PM? That's a pretty big increase if there wasn't some type of food involved!

Gotta run, but will be back in an hour or two.
__________________
Annie is a 18 pound Lhasa Apso, eats Blue Buffalo Healthy Weight with added black beans and Benefiber for additional fiber, uses Walmart's ReliOn branded Novolin (mix of R and N)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-05-2012, 01:05 PM
buddy buddy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 66
Default Re: BUDDY

Craig,

Thanks for the catch -- the time you are referring to on 11-3 was 1 pm.

We did feed Buddy a few small hamburger pieces and cooked broccoli -- but not much.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-05-2012, 02:20 PM
CraigM's Avatar
CraigM CraigM is online now
Senior Member and Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 4,021
Default Re: BUDDY

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddy View Post
Craig,

Thanks for the catch -- the time you are referring to on 11-3 was 1 pm.

We did feed Buddy a few small hamburger pieces and cooked broccoli -- but not much.
You're gonna hear this alot: "every dog is different", so take my comments with a grain of salt. If Annie gets just about ANY food in the afternoon she will spike her blood glucose (BG). In fact, just 5-6 pieces of dry dog kibble will cause a rise! "Every dog is different!" I wouldn't think a small piece of broccoli would hurt, but I'm not sure about hamburger. Probably best not to give anything between meals just yet. Yea, they do beg!

Very important to keep things as consistent as possible. Same food, same amount of food, fed at the same times - 12 hours apart. There are some here that vary from this norm, but until Buddy is determined to require "special needs", I recommend keeping everything as consistent as possible. Many of us use a kitchen scale to weigh the meals because we feel measuring cups just aren't as repeatable.

6 units of Novolin-N might still be a little light. A common rule-of-thumb for a starting dosage is .2 units per pound. So, a 25 pounder might be started at 5 units. Again, every dog is different. Just as an example, Annie weighs 18 pounds and is getting 7 units of Novolin-N.

You might want to try a few days without any between meal snacks and see how that works. Does Buddy eat without problems? If so, you might try feeding ONLY the WD (whatever the bag recommends). We treat our pups as family, so we think we should make their meals something we would enjoy (chicken, hamburger, etc.)! Extra foods = more potential inconsistencies. Of course these are just my thoughts, others do mix in people food, or make home cooked meals for their pups and have good results. Annie gets 2.1 OZ of dry kibble, moistened with 4 tablespoons of warm water as her meals. She might get a very small amount of broccoli or cauliflower once or twice a week that doesn't seem to affect her. If she gets anything between meals (given, or found on the floor) I expect her numbers to be high.
__________________
Annie is a 18 pound Lhasa Apso, eats Blue Buffalo Healthy Weight with added black beans and Benefiber for additional fiber, uses Walmart's ReliOn branded Novolin (mix of R and N)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-05-2012, 02:22 PM
LuvMyMunchie's Avatar
LuvMyMunchie LuvMyMunchie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 176
Default Re: BUDDY

Just wanted to say hi and welcome to you and Buddy. I also have a MiniSchnauzer and just started the dog diabetes journey 10/24. My Munch is on Novolin N also but currently only 5 units which basically does zilch. I too am concerned about his weight loss and seeing those 600+ numbers. Yesterday he actually hit a 159 fasting and I thought, oh boy!, but it was short lived.

There are a number of MiniSchnauzers on this forum and I'm seeing pretty much the same thing when I read their threads. Seems they can be on the difficult side to regulate but it's still doable.

Wish I could give you some words of wisdom but I'm too new at this. There are plenty of experienced people on the board and like I said, several MiniS owners, and I'm sure they'll give you some good input.

Best of luck to you and Buddy.

Louise
__________________
Munchie, 11 yr. old Mini-Schnauzer, 23.2 lbs., diabetes 10/24/12. 8 units Novolin N 2xdaily.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-05-2012, 03:38 PM
jim maceri's Avatar
jim maceri jim maceri is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 959
Default Re: BUDDY

I also want to chime in and say welcome to you and buddy. Craig gave some valuable information to consider. My dog used to eat 3 meals a day being a giant breed to avoid bloat. One of the hardest things was getting him to two meals, 12 hours apart. After a few weeks though he seemed to stop begging and following me into the kitchen....LOL

If you can, only change one thing at a time......if you are working on food then stick to the same dose of insulin. When you do make any changes with insulin, it will need to settle in for 3 days or so before you can expect to see any changes, even slight ones.

Stay patient and don't lose faith. Getting to regulation took us almost 6 full months of adjusting, tweaking, figuring out how exercise fit in and what its affect was. I also feed my guy WD kibble with a gravy made from WD can and boiled boneless chicken breast. I measure everything on a digital kitchen scale everyday, feed at the same time, walk at almost the same times ect....I also keep a detailed daily log of food, insulin, activity, snacks if any along with all the testing done.

Lots of great wisdom on this board from some very "seasoned" pro's who are more than willing to help. The more information you can give the better it will be for feedback...don't hesitate to keep posting questions and results of your management.
__________________
Jim/Marijane & Spirit, Newfoundland, born Dec 22, 2007, 115lbs. DX Oct. 2011, 15.5 units Humulin 2x per day. Hills WD kibble, Hills WD can made into gravy, boiled chicken.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-05-2012, 03:48 PM
BogiesMom's Avatar
BogiesMom BogiesMom is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, California
Posts: 518
Default Re: BUDDY

Hi Buddy,
Welcome, I am also new to diabetes my 7 year old mini schnauzer was diagnosed the end of Aug. We are still a work in progress it is slow and sometimes it seems like the road has no end but numbers are lower than when we started and they are very level on curves. Bogie also eats W/D and I add in boiled chicken breast for added calories but he is still thin. He only gets an occasional frozen green bean between meals and is fed at 12 hour intervals, I also weigh all of his food. I am told he will not gain much weight until we can get his numbers lower when that happens his body will start to utilizes food properly and we will start to see him put on some weight again.
You will get great information here... I get better information from everyone here than my own vet
Hang in there and once again welcome
Dawn & Bogie
__________________
Bogie is a 8 year old 24 pound Miniture Schnauzer, Dx on 08/24/12. Home cooked diet formulated by Just Food For Dogs, Switching from Levemir to Vetsulin.

Last edited by BogiesMom; 11-05-2012 at 04:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-05-2012, 04:04 PM
buddy buddy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 66
Default Re: BUDDY

Thanks CraigM and Louise!

CraigM, I'll have to be more disciplined in restricting food. The way I see it, the insulin must be losing all efficacy by 3pm because it is a U-shaped curve. Thanks for the tremendous help your website provides.

Louise, thanks for your thread. Yes, I'm getting an excellent education from many of the Schnauzer threads and posts like Bogie, BoJanie and so many others.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-05-2012, 04:13 PM
buddy buddy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 66
Default Re: BUDDY

Jim,

Thanks for the great advice! I am impatient like so many others regarding getting the BG down as we don't want our pup's eyesight to be affected if we can possibly help.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-05-2012, 04:58 PM
CraigM's Avatar
CraigM CraigM is online now
Senior Member and Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 4,021
Default Re: BUDDY

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddy View Post
The way I see it, the insulin must be losing all efficacy by 3pm because it is a U-shaped curve.
That is probably true, especially if there was additional food given in the afternoon.

An increase in insulin usually increases the peak (lowest BG number), and increases the duration (length of time the insulin works). In theory, an increased dose might keep the insulin from running out of oomph quite so fast. Of course its more important not to increase the insulin and cause a too low of a BG earlier in the cycle.

Don't think we've asked about other medical conditions, or other medications? Is Buddy taking any other medications? Many diabetics develop eye problems and get prescribed eye drops that can mess with BG. Annie had an appointment with her eye vet this morning and it was found she has an eye infection (AGAIN!). She was put on Tobramycin which might mess with her BG. The infection itself might have been the cause of some wacky readings recently.

I know you said you are using Novolin-N. Are you getting it at Walmart? Walmart sells a reboxed Novolin-N under their ReliOn branding for $24.88. Lots cheaper than anywhere else! Syringes are also less expensive there. Prescriptions are not required in most States, but best to check before you run out (State, local and sometimes company laws / policies differ).

Also wonder which meter you are using? You can usually get better prices on test strips online than at local pharmacies.

Craig
__________________
Annie is a 18 pound Lhasa Apso, eats Blue Buffalo Healthy Weight with added black beans and Benefiber for additional fiber, uses Walmart's ReliOn branded Novolin (mix of R and N)

Last edited by CraigM; 11-05-2012 at 05:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:01 PM.


Disclaimer -- The content on this site is provided for informational and educational purposes only. While we make every effort to present information that is accurate and reliable, the views expressed here are not meant to be a substitute for the advice provided by a licensed veterinarian. Please consult with your veterinarian for specific advice concerning the medical condition or treatment of your pet and before administering any medication or pursuing any course of treatment that you may read about on this site.

The views and opinions expressed by contributors to this forum are strictly their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and views of the owners, administrators, or moderators of this forum and the k9diabetes.com website.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2009, 2010 k9diabetes.com. All rights reserved.