My Sweet Bagel in Heaven now..

[AlisonandMia]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

Most dogs don't seem to like having their mouth messed with - I guess it reminds them of another dog "disciplining" them or gives some other doggie message like that. But as long as the dog isn't really hysterical about it is pretty easy to get them used to it by using praise, rewards (food or otherwise) for allowing you to fiddle with their mouth in a more and more intrusive way for longer and longer. Most seem to learn to associate it with good things and just to put up with it.

I have to be able to handle my dog's mouth, especially his lips, as here we have deadly paralysis ticks and the mouth, particularly the lips, are one of their favorite places for attaching themselves so regular inspections are necessary. It also makes vet visits less traumatic (and safer for the vet!) if they are basically accepting of having their mouth handled.

I follow mouth fiddling with an ear massage with Zac as he loves having his ears sort of pulled.

Alison

[Bagel's Mom]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

great advice everyone...
I got that One Touch Ultra 2 on ebay for cheap..brand new,,,
Hope it comes soon...

Will let cha know how she does tomorrow..
Sande

[amberiu99]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

Because of the recent issues with Vetsulin, it may be easier to regulate with an insulin you can count on. Try to keep your routine the same every day and it will be easier to regulate. I had a bad vial 2 months ago and it was an absolute nightmare. Once they are out of whack it takes a bit to get them back to their normal.

My dog went blind (in less than a few months of diagnosis) and I had cataract surgery performed on him. His vision is back to normal, which makes me soooo happy

Also, I was terrified when I had to give Jory (my baby) his first shot and in the beginning he would cry because I was using syringes from the vet. What I found is that you can get syringes from the drug store that are much thinner guage, which makes it more comfortable for the dog. PLEASE NOTE there is a difference in dosing if you are using Vetsulin. Syringes from the vet for Vetsulin are U40 and at the drug store they are U100, which means that you have to do a simple conversion to dose properly. It is 2.5 to 1. So if you give your dog 2 units in the U40 syringe, it is 5 units in the U100. The cheapest I have found is the Walgreens Brand, which is $18 for 100 syringes. In some states, you have to have your vet fax a script for them. I use the 31 guage Ultra Fine II short needles, but my dog's fur is short. If you do this, you may want the longer needles because Bagel's fur is a little longer and you want to make sure you can get it in. The nice thing is that they do not react to these needles because they are so thin. If you switch insulins, then you do not need a conversion.

I haven't read the entire thread so I will go back and look, but if you didn't already say it, what dose did your vet start you out at?

[Bagel's Mom]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

well...back from her first curve day....
LAST week when she was diagnosed, her Bg was 420.
After a week of 9 units 2 X a day of Vetsulin, this morning at 8:30 it was 673
then 10:30 556
12:30 520
5 PM 490

I brought her home and am now to increase it to 11 units a dayuntil next Thurs and she does another curve day...
I knew it was out of whack last night..She was drinking like a crazydog..we are having horrible winds and rain and she had to go out in all of it to pee several times..

I decided since I am one week into all this and I have been with these topnotch vets for 10 years and 4 other animals, I will trust them to do their best for Bagel. They adore her and with her Cushings and all, they have always been special to her and to me. I got 100 syringes for $25 so that wasn't bad and he wants to stay with the vetsulin- the regional vets still prefer it and have been in touch with the company and feel secure with them...
anyway..a week ago I didn't even know anything but almost passed out
when I had to think of giving her a shot..Tonight I looked at the angle I had that needle as she was eating and thought how close I was to my finger..HA will be more careful!
I doubt she would be a good candidate for cataract surgery- is that a definite with diabetes?
oh well..tonight she sleeps contentedly and I can breathe a little better.
thanks to all for the support and good advice.
STILL trying to decide on the best food...
Sande

[k9diabetes]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

I skimmed quickly and didn't see it... how much does Bagel weigh?

Also, when was her Cortisol level last checked and how was it?

She may need more or less than average insulin for her size depending on how well contained the Cushing's is.

Are you checking her urine for ketones?

Her blood sugar is very high so ketones are a concern.

[amberiu99]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

I wanted to add a bit of information about the ketones. You can buy ketostix or diastix separately or together. I got the combo kind online very reasonably. It was much cheaper than paying the vet to check for them. You just dip the stick in cleanly collected urine and match the color on the stick to the chart. ***My best tip for collecting urine (I thought it up and now the vet's office uses it LOL) Get a fish net, the small kind for an at home fish tank, and cut the net part out. Then use a clean sandwich baggie and pull through the opening where the net was. You can catch the urine without getting peed on and you can check the sample and then dump it outside and throw the baggie away.

Also, I think you should get a second opinion over the phone from another vet if possible. It seems like you are not getting a result and you should see some curve, at least I think so. It is even more suspect given the issues with vetsulin. I think it's great that your vet has talked to them, but "they" the vetsulin producers are claiming the problem is intermittent and they do not have a specific batch that is impacted, they do not know what has been affected. So I don't think that your vet could say definitively that you do not have a bad vial. Because of the inconsistency in the amount of active ingredients the primary concern is that you increase Bagle and then when you change vials the dose could be too high and Bagle could bottom out, which is so dangerous.

I apologize for my ignorance, but I do not know much about cushings and the impact on your insulin needs. I can say that the most certain thing you can rely on throughout the regulation and maintenance process is your own instincts in regards to the needs of your pet. You are Bagel's advocate in the world, so be persistent when your care expectations are not being met.

I truly wish you the best of luck and I hope that you are not offended that I recommend a second opinion.

[Bagel's Mom]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

how much does Bagel weigh?
She weighed in at 39 yesterday.

Also, when was her Cortisol level last checked and how was it?
August but she ran a bad UTI and had a bladder stone so they didn't test when she was sheduled due to antibiotics and that took a while to clear up and dissolve the stone. It was 7 then....

She may need more or less than average insulin for her size depending on how well contained the Cushing's is. Cushings has been contained well since the last Lyso was increased in the summer...

Are you checking her urine for ketones? We have only been diagnosed one week and I am trying to teach 2nd and 4th grades all day on little sleep and learn as much as I can about her and this diabetes as I can...no, I don't even know about that yet...Food is my concern too and I am cooking right now but need a backup...

Her blood sugar is very high so ketones are a concern.
it was 420 the evening she was diagnosed..The first three or 4 days of insulin went great...but then it went high agin before the curve test. She does another curve next week...

[Bagel's Mom]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

I do appreciate all the imput and helpful suggestions you all have for us..I am not offended by anything- just real ignorant and having to rely on faith and trust along with someone with skin to help my girl.....

I am a middle aged schoolteacher with a son in Grad school..and I have spent thousands of dollars on my babygirl in her almost 10 years. She is the only one of 9 siblings still living of the litter...
BAD interbreeding and it was a family at my school and when they brought the puppies to show, they went home empty handed...Bagel's mom was a beagle/bassett, dad a small beagle..maternal grandma a bassett hound..
She had major back surgery at 4
Cushings at 9 and now this along with a toe that had to be removed and a bladder stone etc.
This vet has been with her all along except for the regional surgical center.
He is the vet for the animal museum, head of the local animal groups SPCAs Humane Societies and vets call HIM for consultations... He is gone to national conferences often and speaks at most. His animal hospital was voted number one in our region...and he ia a compassionate man as well..
So my trust is there and for what I have spent on her and the care they give her, I trust them... and he allows me to call at home if I need to.
She is my precious baby and I will do what I can always to keep her quality of life intact. One week into this and I keep waking hoping it was a bad dream..but it isn;t .,.and I have to rely on my faith to keep me sane in this and try to do my job each day as well...
for which I am late OH DEAR..gotta run...
S

[Roxee'sDad]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

Hi Sande,

For everything that has been dumped on poor Bagel, you're doing a great job of learning and dealing with it. I'm sure it will be a continuing education. You're a great mom and you and Bagel are lucky to have each other.

John (Roxee's Dad)

[pgcor]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

Hi Sande:

I can see why you feel so overwhelmed. I am so sorry you and Bagel have had such a rough time. It made me so sad to read your post. I've been in the same boat and often regress at times when I feel overwhelmed with Pip. I think this is a great place to dump your emotions though. We've all been there. I can't imagine there's one person on this board that doesn't know how you feel.

I hope the day goes better for you and Bagel! Being middle-aged alone sucks!

Pam

[k9diabetes]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

I was curious about Bagel's weight because it gives us a vague idea of how much insulin she might need.

At 39 pounds, it would not be unusual for her to go up as high as 20 units of insulin, perhaps even more.

I'm glad, given how high her blood sugar is, that the dose was raised 2 units and that she will be retested fairly soon.

Ketones are life threatening so if you can get hold of some ketostix or ketodiastix at the pharmacy - they are fairly inexpensive - and check her urine, you would know if there is any risk there.

Ketones seem to be dog specific. Some dogs can have very high blood sugar and never have a problem with them while other dogs are much more sensitive and would have ketones at lower blood sugar levels than Bagel's.

Cortisol, which is what a dog has too much of with Cushing's is directly linked to blood sugar levels. The more cortisol, the higher the blood sugar. Not enough cortisol (Addison's disease) and extremely low blood sugar can result.

It sounds like Bagel's Cushings is pretty well controlled so I'm hoping it won't present too much of a challenge to regulation of her diabetes.

Natalie

[k9diabetes]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

As for the vet/Vetsulin issue, not to worry. At this point, Bagel's working on getting her blood sugar down and that's the most important thing.

If the supply of Vetsulin dries up and she has to switch, then you'll just switch. By then you should have her closer to regulated so a better idea of how many units of insulin she will need.

If you can find time to check for ketones, that would be helpful.

Ketoacidosis is a very scary, and expensive, thing to deal with so best to avoid that with an inexpensive urine test.

If ketones show up on the urine test, contact the vet immediately.

Bagel is one lucky girl to have wound up with someone so dedicated to her AND a great vet. It's a good thing as it sounds like she has needed both!

Hang in there,

Natalie

[Bagel's Mom]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

Still at school with MUNCHKINS all around ..aren't they fun??

what on earth would i do if I DID find ketones?

last Thursday the original diagnosis came from a urine specimen....
and she had 5 plusses so he sent me to get her and get a blood drop....

wouldn't ya think they would be aware?

I have to go pick up Purina something?? DSM or something?/
I will ask...
FRIDAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YY

[amberiu99]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

I use Royal Canin for diabetics. it is a prescription food and I think you can get it at PetSmart if they have a Banfield Clinic. I add boiled chicken and raw veggies run through the food processor. I keep his food very consistent and have had good luck with it. Jory is a little under 1/2 Bagels weight and is fed twice a day. He gets 1/3 cup of the dry dog food, 75g of chicken, and 100g veggies (50/50 green beans and carrots). I hope this helps. I agree with everyone else when they say we have all been where you are and it is scary, but managable.

At some point, if you can, curve Bagel at home. It will save you a lot of money and will help avoid Bg spikes due to nerves at the vet. If you can spot check her, your vet may allow you to increase her dose a little faster to get her regulated.

Check her urine for Ketones ASAP and if it is negative, don't even look up ketoacidosis because it is terrifying and it nearly gave me a panic attack when Jory was first diagnosed. If she is registering ketones, contact your vet IMMEDIATELY! Best of luck : )

[ravenecw]

Re: Bagel joins the group and Mommy is melting

I use Prescription Diet W/D and give her some green beans/peas now and then etc. (I watch what she gets though very closely).

I still have a hard time with "dog food" being prescription though. Not sure why, but I do.