diabetes isn't the end...

[Autumn]

Re: Devon, aka Mr. Fussy

Hi Snow
I hope that Devon's antibiotics kick in and this sore heals quickly for him.
Anna

[snow]

Re: Devon, aka Mr. Fussy

Hi Snow,

I'm glad you're cutting back to 17 units in the morning. Please stay at that dose for a couple of days at least and allow things to settle down.

At 18 units, the BG went down to 190 and I would not have increased the dose at all at that point until three or four days on that dose had passed.

I think 19 units was probably too many and may have caused rebound..

If so, and if you have rebound, then the blood sugar will tend to run high and/or be erratic for as much as 48 hours after the rebound.

So I wouldn't worry at all about high blood sugar for the next two days. Stay at 17 units and reevaluate things in about four days to see if more insulin is needed.

The reason for waiting a few days between increases, preferably at least 3 days, is that you do not yet know how long the NPH is lasting. If, for example, one injection is lasting 18 hours instead of 12 - not necessarily likely but possible - the injections would start to overlap and after a few days the number of units injected could drop the blood sugar a lot farther than it did the first day.

With a 290 the first night, I don't think you want to give more than 17 units for some time. A 1 unit difference can be huge when you're close to that "line" of good blood sugar.

I know it's hard to wait but slow patient increases and observations for three or four days at each dose will get you there without upsetting everything with a rebound. Those can take days to recover from - not to mention the risk of a low blood sugar crisis - so they only slow down the process of finding the right dose and muddy the picture of how the insulin is working.

Natalie

thanks for the good advice as always, Natalie. I gave his 17u 2 x today. And wouldn't you know it, today his BG is:
820a 368
830A shot 17u meal
717P 457 shot 17u meal.

so far so good. I was really surprised by the 368 - since he's been so much higher then that every morning.

I thought no matter what, his BG would be improving. His toe sore/growth/teeny alien thing seems to be shrinking and hardening up and his toe's not splayed out anymore, but he is still on antibiotics. I'd really like to go back to short walks at least. He still likes his dry food Blue Buffalo food but I have to rotate the canned food. He has a great appetite the last few days, that has to be good.

snow<--person
Devon <--wanna hike....

[snow]

Re: Devon, aka Mr. Fussy

spoke too soon, he's going down fast again - another semi sleepless night

11 p 203
Sunday
1235 A 193
145 A 151 6 1/2 hours post shot

he's doing his low blood sugar routines, agitated, pacing, begging for food. I gave him some dried chicken breast, no good. 1 1/2 small PB crackers. No. So I gave him 3 Tbl of canned food mixed with 1 1/2 Tbl of ground flaxseed hoping the fiber will fill him up and slow his sugar down.

It's 2 am. I am so tired. I'll do his BG in another 45 minutes hopefully he will be on his way up. I hate to give him Karo if I don't have to, he'll be way over 500 in the AM if I do. I am going to lower him to 16u in the morning.

This is the dosage on Vetsulin that always screwed him up - anything over 15 and I have to watch him like a hawk.

Please tell me this gets better.. I'd like to know I am auctioning my limited edition Julia Child autographed cookbook on Ebay for a reason... maybe some therapy sessions for me?

snow

[k9diabetes]

Re: Devon, aka Mr. Fussy

151 is far from low... it's perfect... I think it would be good to be sure that his behavior is actually low blood sugar, as in under 70 actual reading - not sure whether you're adjusting the meter readings - before giving him food.

IF his blood sugar was actually low, you want quickly digest carbs or sugar. Don't be afraid of syrup - just don't use too much of it. It goes in fast, which is what you need but also doesn't last nearly as long as food. Protein takes too long to be digested.

What is his blood sugar right now?

Natalie

[k9diabetes]

Re: Devon, aka Mr. Fussy

Sorry I guess the 151 is right now... did you just now give him the food?

I don't think there's any reason to panic or to give him food. Maybe he's not used to lower blood sugar and he begs but that doesn't mean he NEEDS it.

Somehow we have to find a way for good numbers not to scare you!

Natalie

[snow]

Re: Devon, aka Mr. Fussy

He's 144....2:13AM

I know 151's perfect but if he's been high for a while, he never stays there just flies right past it. I'm not adjusting any of my figures. I'm using the One Touch Ultra.

It's not the numbers so much as the way he's acting, he will react to a fast drop the same way was if he was super low.

He barked at me for food and then went out and peed, now he's pacing.....

[snow]

Re: Devon, aka Mr. Fussy

I meant it to come out, if he stayed at the 150,140's that would be fine and I wouldn't feed him but he never ever stays there... he only passes it on his way to 75 or something.

It is amazing how much more like himself he is on NPH

[k9diabetes]

Re: Devon, aka Mr. Fussy

So if it's 151 on the meter, it could be as much as 200 - I think you will have to resist giving him food when he does that. Otherwise, you will never get settled into a routine and it will never get better!

He may be uncomfortable but he's not in danger.

Sometimes they get used to having high blood sugar and they don't like it when it's lower but they will adjust after spending some time at better numbers. He can't ever adjust to better numbers if you don't let him stay there.

I don't mean to sound unsympathetic... but consider what you're "treating" when you're giving food in this situation. You're not treating low blood sugar or even normal blood sugar. 200 is still high blood sugar, which is now going to go a lot higher now that you've given him a bunch more food.

There's only one way for things to settle down with Devon and that's to settle into a routine that's safe in terms of avoiding actual risk of hypoglycemia so blood sugar no lower than 100 as an actual adjusted reading, maybe 80 on the meter to be safe. A routine where he gets the same amount of food and the same amount of insulin every 12 hours and he only gets "fix it" food if there's something that truly needs fixing, as in he's at risk of seizures, etc. from hypoglycemia.

I know you're worried and emotional from being exhausted by this. Truly I do understand. But I also know there's only one path to getting out of this situation.

In truth, we don't know why Devon is acting this way... maybe it's the blood sugar, maybe it's something else. Maybe he's responding to your exhaustion and worry over the low numbers!! So try to take at least the blood sugar at face value and not read anything into it.

And go to bed Snow!! That's what I'm going to do.

Natalie

[k9diabetes]

Re: Devon, aka Mr. Fussy

I didn't see your clarification until after I posted... you're on a new insulin and a fairly new diet I think. I would throw out whatever you've known about Snow before and look at this as a whole different situation, which it is.

If you get 151 and you're afraid he'll go lower, set the alarm for an hour from then and test him again and see what you get BEFORE you "fix" it with food. He may not go low and if he doesn't then you've piled on a bunch of food he didn't need.

At 144 on the meter, he was a long way from low blood sugar. NPH is a different insulin with a different action and it is going to take time to see what the pattern is now.

In fact, it would have been ideal just to set an alarm, get up and check him and see what happened.

But for tonight, I think sleep would be good for all! The extra food is in and I don't see any reason to worry more about it tonight.

Natalie

[snow]

Re: Devon, aka Mr. Fussy

Have a great night and thanks again for your help.

snow

[lab lover]

Re: Vetsulin and Food

Hi Snow,

Never met you yet but, wanted to asked about the Blue Newman's chicken you are giving your dog is it canned food or the treats? I give Baby the small treats and it doesn't raised her bg's only a couple a day after shot or food. Just wonder about the canned food. the one I used is 2.29 a can so it is costly and with the dry w/d it is getting expensive, but I loved her so we are doing our best she eats better than us. Nice to me you. Ida/ Baby yellow lab 7rs diagnosed in Jan/09 spoiled rotten the princess of our home.

[snow]

Re: Vetsulin and Food

Hi Snow,

Never met you yet but, wanted to asked about the Blue Newman's chicken you are giving your dog is it canned food or the treats? I give Baby the small treats and it doesn't raised her bg's only a couple a day after shot or food. Just wonder about the canned food. the one I used is 2.29 a can so it is costly and with the dry w/d it is getting expensive, but I loved her so we are doing our best she eats better than us. Nice to me you. Ida/ Baby yellow lab 7rs diagnosed in Jan/09 spoiled rotten the princess of our home.

Hi Ida nice to meetcha

I feed Devon twice a day. He gets 1 1/2 c Blue Buffalo Senior dry food, and 1/2 can Newman's Organic Chicken canned food. That stuff's expensive isn't it . He won't eat the Chicken much anymore, so I am alternating it with 1/2 can Wellness 95% Chicken and 95% Beef canned foods, and Newman' Organic Beef canned. I am really hesitant about the latter because I find lots of fat at the bottom of the can so he only gets it once a week. No wonder he loves it so much, yummy grease burger... anyway all canned is 1/2 a can per meal.

He eats the dry but only if it's got canned all over it but he's always been that way. The dry food is quite high in carbs but Devon was on Vetsulin so he needed more carbs at the time. He just switched to NPH so I will probably have to switch dry food again.

The only treats I give him are bits of dehydrated chicken breasts, maybe 3 times a day. We are talking like thumbnail size. He doesn't need a big treat, just an acknowledgement that he's A Good Dog.

You have to be very careful if you get dehydrated chicken, some are irradiated, some have soy/teriaki sauce on them (super high sodium and possibly sugar), some are made with sugar or corn syrup. You see them at Wal Mart and the grocery store all the time. I get ones made in the USA by a company called Aunt Jenni. www.auntjeni.com. The texture is perfectly crunchy and savory, and the only ingredient is chicken.

I get a 10 oz container from his old dog day care, and it lasts a long time. Devon adores their chicken. So does my fiendish foster cat, when Devon gets a smidge she's sitting right next to him waiting for a bit. Probably bite me if I didn't give her some. The wench.

snow<--the person
Devon<--the dog

[k9diabetes]

Re: Devon switching to NPH

Hi Snow,

Just checking in to see how Devon is doing with the NPH.

Natalie

[snow]

diabetes isn't the end...

I used to post here a while ago. My dog Devon had diabetes. He passed last night but that is not why I am here.

Like Natalie's dog Chris, diabetes was the least of Devon's problems. He didn't die from complications from diabetes but from internal bleeding probably from tumor on his spleen. It had zero to do with with diabetes and everything to do with genetics, age and being such a big dog. He was in his 90's in people years and his diabetes was well controlled.

So newbies, I remember when it would freeze my heart in Devon's early days to see so many dogs passing. I wanted to say to you, don't be scared, and you aren't alone. Diabetes is, as Natalie says, not a death sentence. It can even bring you closer to another soul which will enrich and bless you. Devon and I were already joined at the hip so it made no difference to us, just something to deal with and get used to.

Best wishes, and good bye.

snow and devon at the bridge

[BestBuddy]

Re: diabetes isn't the end...

Well said.
RIP Devon

Jenny