Blood sugar 76

[Bichonluver3]

Out of the blue, Sparky has been peeing & drinking up a storm. Thought it might be Cushing's like Chloe but took him to vet yesterday and he was spilling sugar in his urine. Bloodwork came back today with glucose at 449. Confirmed our worst fears - 2 sick dogs. I am at my wits end. Am meeting with vet today to go over testing & insulin. Hope I can even remember what he tells me. Definitely need some reassurance
Carrol & Sparky

[k9diabetes]

Re: Sparky just diagnosed (sister Chloe has Cushings) and I am petrified!

Hi Carrol,

Welcome to you and Sparky!

Gosh, it's just not fair to be hit with this double whammy!!!

I suppose it's what you know that you're usually most comfortable with but personally I'd rather do diabetes than Cushing's... mainly I think because diabetes can be monitored at home and isn't nearly as expensive to treat or monitor.

Sparky will most likely be started on NPH. You can buy it at Walmart inexpensively - $24.88 a bottle for 1,000 units. And can get syringes and test supplies for a good price there as well. Always ask for "Relion" which is the house name for Humulin (most likely - they just switched to Humulin) insulin, syringes, etc. If you buy the name brand, you pay a lot more.

The best way to start is with a conservative dose of insulin and work UP to the right dose, giving each dose change a minimum of four to five days to settle in and develop a long-term response.

Many vets don't promote it, but for me, home blood glucose testing is the very best tool there is for managing a diabetic dog. No guessing about whether the blood sugar is high or low. You can see video and picture tutorials for different testing areas at www.k9diabetes.com/bgtestvideos.html.

So tell us how things went with the vet and we can go from there.

Natalie

[Patty]

Re: Sparky just diagnosed (sister Chloe has Cushings) and I am petrified!

Carrol, welcome to you!
You'll find a lot of really helpful folks here. Natalie's given you some great information. Can you tell us what type of dog Sparky is? How much does he weigh? and what is he currently eating?

One of the things my vet didn't tell me right off is that food and insulin must be given 12 hours apart.

It's a steep learning curve in the beginning. I remember feeling quite overwhelmed. But feel free to ask any questions!

Take care,
Patty

[janspack]

Re: Sparky just diagnosed (sister Chloe has Cushings) and I am petrified!

Out of the blue, Sparky has been peeing & drinking up a storm. Thought it might be Cushing's like Chloe but took him to vet yesterday and he was spilling sugar in his urine. Bloodwork came back today with glucose at 449. Confirmed our worst fears - 2 sick dogs. I am at my wits end. Am meeting with vet today to go over testing & insulin. Hope I can even remember what he tells me. Definitely need some reassurance
Carrol & Sparky

Hi Carrol,

Sorry to hear that you have just had Sparky diagnosed with diabetes. I well remember that feeling of despair when Dazzle was diagnosed in Feb 09. This list saved my life and my sanity.

Like you, I have another chronically sick dog (a Standard Poodle with Addison's Disease) so I know how hard it is to then have to think about coping with another one. I've also had two dogs with Cushings (a father and son) although not at the same time thank goodness.

This list will help you through these early days and get you comfortable with what you need to do and what you need to learn to help keep Sparky well in the years to come.

[Bichonluver3]

Re: Sparky just diagnosed (sister Chloe has Cushings) and I am petrified!

Hi Everybody!
Thank you so much for the warm welcomes. I have been a member of K9cushing's for a while so I know that here, like there, there are some VERY knowledgeable people. I know that I will be leaning on you for some time.
Wow, Jan, you really do know what it is like to have more than 1 sick pup - even more than [I] do!
Let me tell you a little bit about Sparky. His mom & dad were champions and the breeder was going to keep Sparky but he grew 1/2" too tall to show plus the fact that he did not travel well in those days. So we adopted him at 5 months old.
He has always been a "cave" dog, always looking for cozy little places to curl up in. He a fairly uneventful life with us and his older "sister", Chloe, who we discovered last April was a cushpup.
However, about 2 years ago, Sparky had stomach surgery for a foreign object which turned out to be a latex glove - oh yes, he ate the whole dang thing. Well, he was 1 week out of surgery and developed gastritis (on the weekend, of course) and spent 3 days at the emergency clinic. Sparky recovered but our bank account is still recovering.
We adopted a 3rd dog 2 years ago from the local rescue. Mr Grover is a maltipoo who thinks he is a bichon like the other 2 and we have not burst his bubble! Thank God, he is healthy.
Back to Sparky. I and my husband noticed last week that Sparky was drinking and peeing excessively. So, of course, I thought Cushings and took him right away to the vets. He was spilling sugar in his urine and they did bloodwork which came back with a blood sugar of 449. Sparky is a sweet dog but that was a little too sweet!
The vet called my husband, Sparky and I into his office that day and gave us the spiel on canine diabetes. He gave us an excellent handout on the different aspects of the disease. I am a nurse so am familiar with diabetes in humans. my husband, however, has no understanding of diseases and was freaking out. The vet very patiently answered his questions, sometimes 3 or 4 times! We were there for 1 1/2 hours and he didn't charge us 1 cent. He said he would rather us use the money for insulin.
Here is what he suggested we do. Sparky weighs 20.4 lbs. (His bloodwork 3 months ago was textbook perfect.).
The vet said to give him 4u Humulin N Friday night after his dinner. We did that and Sparky slept the whole night without crying to drink or pee.
Saturday night we were to give him no insulin as the vet was going out of town for the weekend and he wanted to be here when we started Sparky on his actual regime.
He had 4u again tonight and will get 4u morning and evening (12 hours apart) from now on. I will touch base with the vet tomorrow. I know that Sparky will have to spend a day at the hospital while they do a curve.
Sparky gets Hills Science WD kibble (3/4 cup per meal) along with 2 rounded soup spoon full of WD canned food. I mix his Ocu-glo into the wet food.
Now comes the big question. I asked the vet about glucose testing at home and he said they were not doing it as there had been difficulty with infection setting into the sites and they did not heal well. What are you thoughts
My vet has been very good when it comes to Chloe's Chushing's and has spent a lot of time with me on the phone after hours discussing her treatment. He will listen to me and has actually gone with a lot of my recommendations for her. He provides me with copies of all her lab work and has discussed options with Dr Oliver at university of Tennessee whenever he has questions.
I know he will be the same way with Sparky. He gave us a copy of his lab results at our meeting with him last Thursday.
I would appreciate any suggestions you could give as I AM new at canine diabetes
Thanks so much,
Carrol & Sparky
PS Sparky is on the far right in the picture

[sheureka]

Welcome from another bichon!

Rowlf and I just want to welcome another Bichon.

She was diagnosed almost 2 years ago, and is doing fine. Your Sparky will be fine too, once you get the routine down. It sounds like you have a very good vet, except I've never heard of infection setting in on testing sites. I test Rowlf on the upper lip and would think the possibility of infection would be far greater at a shot site than on her lip. But I'm sure someone else with a lot more experience will respond soon.

Anyway, I think diabetes is probably much easier than cushings. And there are many, many wonderful owners (and dogs!) here who will be able to help you. - sheureka

[Bichonluver3]

Re: Sparky just diagnosed (sister Chloe has Cushings) and I am petrified!

Hi Sheureka & Rowlf!
Thanks for the welcome. always glad to meet another Bichon. Thanks, also, for the encouragement. I am going to mention the lip testing to my vet. How does Rowlf take to the testing twice a day? Is it a battle?
Carrol

[Patty]

Re: Sparky just diagnosed (sister Chloe has Cushings) and I am petrified!

Carrol,
Sparky is so cute! And I love hearing your pups' stories

The vet called my husband, Sparky and I into his office that day and gave us the spiel on canine diabetes. He gave us an excellent handout on the different aspects of the disease. I am a nurse so am familiar with diabetes in humans. That is helpful. I too knew about human diabetes. There's a lot that is similar to Type 1, but just as much that you will have to "forget" as dogs are a bit different in their regimen. my husband, however, has no understanding of diseases and was freaking out. The vet very patiently answered his questions, sometimes 3 or 4 times! We were there for 1 1/2 hours and he didn't charge us 1 cent. He said he would rather us use the money for insulin. That's really great of him!
Here is what he suggested we do. Sparky weighs 20.4 lbs. (His bloodwork 3 months ago was textbook perfect.).
The vet said to give him 4u Humulin N Friday night after his dinner. That sounds like a good starting dose to me. We did that and Sparky slept the whole night without crying to drink or pee.
Saturday night we were to give him no insulin as the vet was going out of town for the weekend and he wanted to be here when we started Sparky on his actual regime. I think I would have just decreased the dose if he was worried. But glad you are back on the insulin now.
He had 4u again tonight and will get 4u morning and evening (12 hours apart) from now on. I will touch base with the vet tomorrow. I know that Sparky will have to spend a day at the hospital while they do a curve. Not sure what time your vet opens or what time Sparky's injections are, but if you are able to get him there for a fasting blood draw, that's really helpful. Then they would take his bg (blood glucose) every 2 hours after that until next shot time. Be sure shots/meals occur at the regular times.
Sparky gets Hills Science WD kibble (3/4 cup per meal) along with 2 rounded soup spoon full of WD canned food. I mix his Ocu-glo into the wet food. Was he eating something else prior to diagnosis? Any issue with transitioning?
Now comes the big question. I asked the vet about glucose testing at home and he said they were not doing it as there had been difficulty with infection setting into the sites and they did not heal well. What are you thoughts How do they recommend home testing? Was he thinking you would do a venous draw? I've never heard of this with any of the people that have home tested here or on other websites. We have a number of people using various places such as the inner lip, carpal pad, elbow callus, or base of the tail area. Here are some good videos you can watch to see how it's done in these areas: http://www.k9diabetes.com/bgtestvideos.html
My vet has been very good when it comes to Chloe's Chushing's and has spent a lot of time with me on the phone after hours discussing her treatment. He will listen to me and has actually gone with a lot of my recommendations for her. He provides me with copies of all her lab work and has discussed options with Dr Oliver at university of Tennessee whenever he has questions.
I know he will be the same way with Sparky. He gave us a copy of his lab results at our meeting with him last Thursday.
I would appreciate any suggestions you could give as I AM new at canine diabetes I think one of the greatest tools you can have in managing Sparky's diabetes is home testing. I think your vet sounds like a good partner and I'd bet he would come around and might learn something from you on this one.

You can use a human glucometer. I like the OneTouch Ultra2. I know Natalie often recommends the OneTouch for medium and larger dogs and the Freestyle meters for smaller dogs. A human meter often reads the bg a bit lower than actual due to the difference in size/shape of a dog's red blood cell. Once you have the hang of testing you can always compare your meter to your vet's lab machine for accuracy. I also like using the Accuchek Softclix lancing device.

In the meantime, you might want to pick up some ketodiastix to track the glucose in your dog's urine. I've noticed most pharmacies just carry ketostix on the shelves now but can order the ketodiastix if you ask.

Hope that helps some to get you started!
Take care,
Patty

[Bichonluver3]

Re: Sparky just diagnosed (sister Chloe has Cushings) and I am petrified!

Hi Patty!
Thank you so much for your very helpful info. I am pretty sure that if I tell my vet that I want to home test, he will go along with it. Particularly since he trusts my judgment with Chloe. He jokes about how I must have a sixth sense because I knew something was wrong with both Chloe & Grover before they had any signs (that's why the blood was drawn 3 months ago. I felt something was wrong - don't know why- but the blood values were all normal!). My only problem is, I have no problem testing humans but to think of doing it to Sparky makes me feel really creepy Glad you gave me links!!!
I have been giving Sparky his food/insulin at 0700 and 1900. I will have to change my hours at work because I teach nurses and must hit all shifts. I have been going in at 0630 one day a week but will change that to an evening.
Sparky was on ID kibble but has been on WD before (come to think of it, I think he has had every brand in the world at one time or another. The reason we changed around at that time was to find something His Highness liked
He has never had a problem transitioning.
After the 4u last night, he slept through the night with no getting up in during the night to drink or pee. This morning, however, he did have a big drink when he woke up.
It is 0819 and vet is in at 0900. I'll bet he calls me before I call him!
Thanks again for your wonderful help. BTW, would you be willing to stop by twice a day to test Sparky?? lol
Carrol

[Bichonluver3]

Re: Sparky just diagnosed (sister Chloe has Cushings) and I am petrified!

OOPS! Forgot to mention- Sparky will spend a day at the vet's next week so they can map his curve.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Sparky just diagnosed (sister Chloe has Cushings) and I am petrified!

Hi Carrol,

I've spent six years on forums for diabetic dogs and have never heard so much as a peep about an infection setting in from home testing and I've been acquainted with literally hundreds of dogs over the years who have been tested at home. So I don't think you have to worry about that and do wonder where his other clients have been testing their dogs.

Could be some were being cheap with lancets and using them over and over again, which certainly could create the potential for infections. The lancets are not very expensive and the only time we reused them was during a single testing period if we didn't get a drop of blood the first time. Then we would relance right away. But after that session we always discarded them.

I recommend the Accuchek Softclix lancing device, which works great if you do the lip. It's the quietest and gentlest of all the ones I tried. Though I LOVED the OneTouch Ultra meter, I hated the lancing device that came with it.

The Relion Micro meter is getting good reviews recently too. Relion is Walmart's house brand for insulin, syringes, and testing supplies and is by far the least expensive. Humulin N there is $24.88 rather than the $60-65 for it as name brand Humulin.

We tested Chris' lip a minimum of three times a day every day (he got four insulin injections a day) for three years (so over a thousand times) plus less frequently for a year before that. He never had an infection or was worried or afraid of being tested. If you look at his video, that was done early in 2008, after he had been diabetic for more than four years and you can see how upset he is about testing!

A dog's lip has almost no nerve endings so it is not painful to test there and usually gives a lovely drop of blood - just be sure and dry the spot you're going to lance with a paper towel.

Some vets use ears as it is a bit dangerous for them to try the lip. But ears typically aren't the best place to get a blood sample in a dog. So maybe try other spots first.

It would be great to get some kind of monitoring going to see how the 4 units is affecting his blood sugar. That's a good starting dose for his weight but every once in a while a dog is very sensitive and needs a smaller than average dose. Our dog at 60 pounds never needed more than about 11-12 units of insulin givent wice a day. So it's good just to check early on and see how far the 4 units is dropping the blood sugar right now.

Natalie

[Bichonluver3]

Re: Sparky just diagnosed (sister Chloe has Cushings) and I am petrified!

Thanks, Natalie!
I watched the video and certainly did not see any flinching! Of course, his mom is a real pro at testing Sparky has had 2 doses (last night & this morning) of 4u. he did take a major drink this morning when he first got up but haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary.
What do you think of his diet? He weighs 20.4 lbs and has almost 3/4 cup WD kibble with about 2 rounded soup spoons of WD canned per meal.
Thanks,
Carrol

[k9diabetes]

Re: Sparky just diagnosed (sister Chloe has Cushings) and I am petrified!

Do you have a general idea of how much food he ate before?

To me, the best way to figure out a quantity is to guesstimate how many calories he was getting before and base the new diet on that amount.

And add or subtract if you're trying to get them to gain or lose weight.

If it was never even vaguely measured before, I'd still try to take a guess at quantity of food eaten a day and calculate the calories for that. Nearly all the food manufacturers list calorie counts on their websites.

Here's the page for WD: WD calorie and ingredients

I had definitely had a lot of practice by the time I made that video. But I sure am glad no one was around to film me the first two weeks I tried to test Chris - he and I were the three stooges! I was all thumbs and Chris was all spit.

I also especially liked it when he would decide to sneeze mid-test and would blow my hard-won droplet of blood across the room!

Natalie

[Bichonluver3]

Re: Sparky just diagnosed (sister Chloe has Cushings) and I am petrified!

Natalie, that is TOOO funny!
Sparky would not eat as much before as he does now! I will calculate calories later and post. He seems to gobble up his food and so I am not sure wether or not I should be giving him more.
He slept through the night again but does seem to wake between 6 and 7 in the morning for a big drink and then it is back to normal (whatever "normal" is anymore).
Vet called yesterday but I missed his call. He said he will touch base today.
Right now Sparky and Grover are growling and wrestling so I guess all is well in doggy world.
Talk to you later,
Carrol

[Bagel's Mom]

Re: Sparky just diagnosed (sister Chloe has Cushings) and I am petrified!

Hi Carol!
Thought I would add my 2 cents worth here ....

My Bagel ( Beagle/ Bassett) has been a Cushings dog since March of 09...After some expensive testing and adjusting, she has been on Lysodren from the start.
Last November I took her in for the excessive drinking, eating and peeing and almost fell over when he tested her blood and her BGs were close to 600!!

We started on Vetsulin..but soon moved to Relion NPH Novolin....I know Walmart has switched over..I bought 4 bottles before they did and will prob switch er over when I am home for Christmas break ( school teacher)..

If it makes any sense, diabetes has been good for her in every way except she is growing slow cataracts. I went to get her food today and they just marvel that my "at the vet constantly" dog has not been in for ANY reason in a YEAR except nail trims and her rabies shot. Before that it was UTIs all the time and a bladder stone or two and skin issues and more.
She lost 8 pounds since diabetes but that was a good thing and she is much more mobile now.

She eats Purina DCO- a cup each meal..I cut up about 1/4 chicken breast in it...and she gets 18 U each meal of insulin....
I test her lip each time first- she won't let ANYONE touch her feet- but lip testing is no prob and never was. I got a new One touch Ultra kit on ebay and took it to the vets. They used their AlphaTrak and I used mine and the results were about 10 points apart. I liked the sticker pen that came with it but it broke so I got an accucheck one that I like now.

After her shot she gets a small milkbone treat and that's it,.
Her Lysodren is spread out 3 X a week so that doesn"t upset her stomach. I give that with a little blob of cream cheese- the internal Dr. says the fatty snack helps the body absorb the Lyso. and a pepsid (10 mg generic) every morning.
We have had a BLESSED and PEACEFUL year since I first came home from that diabetes diagnosis, found this blog and PANIC was consuming me. I asked 1000000000000 dumb and not so dumb questions but just like K9Cushings, this place held my hand through it all.

She is scratching on the door now- so I will close. I do wish the best for you guys and your babies!
They always told me here..BREATHE BREATHE BREATHE,,,'
Sande and Bagel