Mik is gone...

[k9diabetes]

Re: Mik: 13 yr old Shih-Tzu

If this is an allergic reaction, you could give him some oral benedryl and see if that helps him.

The dosing I have is based on 25 mg capsules and we used to hide them in a bit of lunchmeat or some grated cheese wrapped around them.

I'm not sure how much Mik weighs...

1-5 kg or 2-11 pounds - lists only a liquid measurement - 1 tsp of liquid of 2.5 mg/ml three times a day.

5-15 kg / 11-33 pounds - 1 25 mg capsule three times a day

15 kg and up so more than 33 pounds - 2 25 mg capsules three times a day.

There are other anti-histamines they can take as well.

It could be that the skin has become infected with bacteria. That's pretty common when it's constantly damp and disturbed.

I have put benedryl gel on Chris' skin in the past. But I'd want to be sure he can't lick it off. I didn't have to cover large areas of his body, just between foot pads usually.

I don't know about the spray and I don't think I would use it until you have an answer from a veterinarian as they can be sensitive to chemicals that don't bother people.

Natalie

[robertpri]

Re: Mik: 13 yr old Shih-Tzu

Thanks Natalie,

Yes, I should wait for the vet. I'm so discouraged because Mik's had this a long time, and the vet just tells me to keep with the ointment.

But it does not help at all, getting worse, and results in a large gooey mess. I would not mind the mess if it was working.

[robertpri]

Re: Mik: 13 yr old Shih-Tzu

Well, no surprise Mik's health is degrading. I don't know if it's the diabetes or doggie dementia, being blind and confused, or a combination of everything.

He stands at the water bowl and drinks until it's all gone, then begins to pee all over the place, 2-3 inch puddles as he walks. Then he returns to the water bowl and whimpers for more. He can't get enough, then pees it out.

His BG's run around 100 to 500 depending on time of day, etc.

If there is a good side, he is eating blue buffalo kibble, about 300-500 calories a day, so he should be gaining wt. Nope, still losing wt.

Vet gave me a spray for his skin that is actually working. In five days, skin looks better than months of salve. And it dries nicely. Which begs the question: after all our vet visits and Mik's skin problems, why did vet wait this long for the spray?

Oh well.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Mik: 13 yr old Shih-Tzu

Did they check for a UTI?

I know dementia can result in inappropriate elimination but the excessive thirst along with it makes me think it's not necessarily the dementia. Did the vet evaluate this further?

Natalie

[robertpri]

Re: Mik: 13 yr old Shih-Tzu

It began after seeing the vet. UTI?

[peggy0]

Re: Mik: 13 yr old Shih-Tzu

Urinary Track Infection. What is the name of the spray Robert? Forbin had a steroid spray for his hot spot and of course it raised his BGs. When my springer has a UTI, she drinks and eliminates just as if she was diabetic.

[robertpri]

Re: Mik: 13 yr old Shih-Tzu

Genesis spray; triamcinolone .015%

His appetite is low, but has been for some time. BG's run about the same, as best I can tell. I give him Vetsulin based on calorie intake and Bayer test strip readings.

[Patty]

Re: Mik: 13 yr old Shih-Tzu

Hey Robert,
I finally got a chance to look up the spray: http://www.virbacvet.com/virbac_derm...topical_spray/
"Benefit:

Dosage can be customized to the patient's changing needs. Minimal, mild side effects. No antibiotics. Dye and fragrance free. Triamcinolone acetonide is a highly potent synthetic glucocorticoid, which is primarily effective because of its anti-inflammatory activity. Topical corticosteroids can be absorbed from normal intact skin. Studies have demonstrated that topical preparations of triamcinolone have decreased plasma cortisol levels and suppressed the response to ACTH.

Indications: For topical use in dogs for the control of pruritus associated with allergic dermatitis.
Dosage and Administration: Apply sufficient pump sprays to uniformly and thoroughly wet the affected areas while avoiding run-off of excess product. Avoid getting the spray in dog's eyes. Dogs should be treated twice daily for seven days, then once daily for seven days, then every other day for an additional 14 days (28 days total). Precautions: Wear gloves when applying the product. Spray in a well-ventilated area. If the spray causes irritation to mucous membranes discontinue use. Keep this and all drugs out of reach of children."


I'd keep watching your urine sticks for increased bgs. Could be the reason for the drinking/urinating since it is a steroid. It even has directions for weaning off of it. Did your vet give you guidelines for length of use?

I would imagine Mik feels relief with the use of it (even if he doesn't like the application ). Still, I think steroids can suppress the underlying cause which can be so hard to determine...food, environmental irritant, etc. I don't know...I would question using it long term with a diabetic.

When did the redness start? Can you connect any dots with something new around the time he developed it? A different food he started, new floor/carpet cleaner, new bed, lawn spray, etc. Did the vet feel a skin scraping would help for bacterial or fungal infection?

It's hard to be miserable for so long. I am glad he's getting some relief.
Patty

[robertpri]

Re: Mik: 13 yr old Shih-Tzu

Wow, Patty, thanks a lot!
That was work, and I appreciate it.

It's hard to believe Mik and Mak are brothers. Mik has had "sensitive" skin forever. Mak--never. Mik has never eaten much, Mak is a vacuum cleaner.

Over the years, Karen tried various OTC solutions with some success. He would clear up for a while, then his entire belly would go red, followed by the insides of his legs, and the underside of his neck.

Karen got him bathed with special stuff at the groomer and she kept it under control. Karen learned to see the signs before it got too bad and took steps.

Well, being a typical husband, I was not paying attention to how she did this. I've discussed with groomer and vet. No help.

So, this year, it began slowly on his belly and I started with neosporin-type stuff from the vet. It took months to get this bad so the salve probably helped slow it down, but not cure.

It's now day 6 and his skin looks better than his has for months.

Yes, I know about the slow reduction: 2x/ day for a week, then 1x / for a week, then 1x every other day. Full series is 21 days, unless he shows a bad reaction.

The only reaction is his unquenchable thirst and the obvious results. But I cannot really say his thirst and the spray began at the same time.

MORE: I am amused at the caution about wearing gloves to avoid getting it on my skin, but I'm spraying about 25% of Mik's body. Odd.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Mik: 13 yr old Shih-Tzu

It sounds like the increased thirst started before the spray with the steroid in it.

It would be good to talk to the vet and tell him about the increased thirst since it seems to be new for him and not necessarily related to his blood sugar. Urinary tract infection is one common cause. Kidney problems can generate dilute urine and frequent urination... I am not sure if it increases thirst but it seems like it could just because so much fluid is being eliminated.

Natalie

[robertpri]

Re: Mik: 13 yr old Shih-Tzu

Yes, I plan to call him monday am. Tonight, for the first time, he ate very little, only his baby food with the meds. So, thankful for that.

But no kibble or dog food.

He has been eating fairly well, even with the thirst but not today.

[robertpri]

Re: Mik: 13 yr old Shih-Tzu

Mik is gone.

I had hoped he would pass peacefully in his sleep, in his own bed, but that didn't work out. Six days of no food, and gentle force feeding baby food just caused him to gag and vomit.

He could no longer walk or stand, and I had to carry him everywhere. When he tried to stand, he just shook.

Vet said he just "shut down".

On the bright side, few dogs have lived such a wonderful, happy life as those raised by Karen.

Now I worry about Mak. I've been home from the vet for two hours, and he just wanders around the house looking for his brother. I will spend a lot of time with him.

MANY thanks to everyone on this forum for your endless support and advice, and God bless you all.

bob

[k9diabetes]

Re: Mik is gone...

Oh Robert.... I'm so very very sorry.

Karen did her share but so did you. You took up her cause after she passed away and you have been a wonderful caretaker and advocate for Mik and Mak. Karen would have been very proud of you. Not surprised I'll bet as I know she knew it was in you to do. But proud.

I have always thought, after what we went through with Chris, that there was something more serious than diabetes going on with Mik. And that, like Chris, a lot of intensive testing would not have changed the outcome and would have been miserable for Mik. So there wasn't anything you could have done to change this but it is hard to come to the end of the road regardless.

Sending a hug to you and to Mak and a kisses skyward to Mik,

Natalie

[ozzi]

Re: Mik is gone...

Bob,
I am so sad to hear about Mik's passing. I had been reading about him not eating, and you feeding him baby food, and it really broke my heart. I am so very sorry for you, and I hope your memories of Mik and the companionship of Mak will help to get you through this terribly difficult time.
Best wishes to you,
Kevin

[Patty]

Re: Mik is gone...

Robert,
I am so very sorry to hear this. Natalie's right. You've been through so much and have been such a wonderful caregiver for your dogs. Karen would certainly be proud.

Thinking of you and Mak.
My deepest condolences,
Patty