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Old 01-21-2011, 01:26 PM
Mickey'sMom123 Mickey'sMom123 is offline
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Default Mickey has Pancreatitis

Mickey had been pretty regulated after his initial diagnoses of Diabetes in November. We were pretty lucky. Then, this past Monday, I noticed that his numbers were starting to rise in the morning, although his middle-of-the day numbers were really good. Gradually during the week, he started to get alittle low key and quiet. Just not himself. Then he vomited and appeared to be shaking when I came home from lunch yesterday to check on him. I immediately took him to the Vet, and took him back again today, when he was finally diagnosed. He was put on fluids, given an injection for the Nausea and they are giving me oral Tramadol for him to be given as needed. They recommend switching him to W/D (he had been on Merrick's Turdunken -supposedly low glycemic), and after weeks of being on this, he developed the Pancreatitis. I'm now thinking that even though Merrick says it's low fat, the tiny pieces of chicken skin and little pieces of what looks like fat I've been picking out of it - now convince me that it's not so low in fat. And, I had no idea fat could cause Pancreatitis.

My question is this: How much of the W/D do I give him tonight? His regular amount? They didn't say and the Vet that's substituting for my Vet who is out with Bronchitis didn't say other than to totally switch him to the W/D - and he's left for the day. I'll be picking Mickey up tonight after work. This Vet also said not to mix it with the other dog food and to just give the W/D - won't that make things worse?

Thank you in advance for your expertise. All of you are such life savers!

J
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Old 01-21-2011, 03:21 PM
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Default Re: Mickey has Pancreatitis

I would determine how many calories of the Turducken you were giving him per meal. If the can doesn't say, Merrick's website should give calories per can or cup.

Then feed him the same number of calories of WD... with one caveat - with pancreatitis, especially at first and sometimes always, the vet may recommend small intermittent meals and perhaps smaller than usual meals at first.

So at most I would feed him the same number of calories of WD as you were feeding of the Turducken. But I would also expect that the vet's office can give you guidance on what they would do for a dog with pancreatitis.

They should be able to reach a vet to answer this question for you. not just leave you hanging to figure it out for yourself!

If they can't, it wouldn't hurt to feed him a small meal of the WD - that might be wise anyway to make sure he handles food okay because of the pancreatitis and that particular food okay.... maybe 1/4 of the usual calories you would have given him and one-third or one-half of the amount of insulin you normally give.

He could need less insulin on the WD so I would cut the dose of insulin some even if you give him a full meal's calories. It's hard to say how much but as long as you are with him and can monitor, you can intervene with syrup if needed. Maybe reduce the insulin by 10-15% with a full meal's calories and reduce the insulin to 1/3 of his usual dose with a small meal of 1/4 of his usual calories, something in between 1/3 of his usual dose and 85% of his usual dose if you give him something in between those quantities of food. And then just monitor him.

A lot depends on how high his blood sugar is when you feed him. You have a bigger margin of safety if it's on the higher side at meal time.

If it was me, I would feed a small meal of the WD and a small amount of insulin and work gradually up to a full serving over a few days to make sure it doesn't set off the pancreatitis again. The WD does tend to work well for pancreatitis. Not just the low fat but I believe the fiber can be helpful too.

Natalie
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Old 01-21-2011, 04:36 PM
Mickey'sMom123 Mickey'sMom123 is offline
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Default Re: Mickey has Pancreatitis

Thanks for your response and guidance. Now that I have him at home, he is absolutely not eating anything and he looks totally miserable. I gave him the Tramadol, per their instructions and he's sleeping (after I tried feeding him - a very little bit), but because he isn't eating, I can't give him any insulin. I'm beyond upset about this. What if he doesn't eat in the morning? I can't give him insulin then either. I tried calling their office and all I get is their answering machine. Will he be ok overnight without insulin?
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Old 01-21-2011, 05:28 PM
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Default Re: Mickey has Pancreatitis

I'm so sorry you have this to deal with. Dogs can still receive insulin even if they don't eat. When a dog is having surgery, the vet always tells you to not feed and give half the insulin. As Natalie said, he will need less insulin with the W/D, but you will have to play with it a bit to see how much less.

You need to get in touch with the vet and ask how much to give if he isn't eating. What is his usual dosage?
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Old 01-21-2011, 05:40 PM
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Default Re: Mickey has Pancreatitis

http://www.merrickpetcare.com/store/...p?c=15&s=20257 nutrition for merrick tarducken.

http://www.hillspet.com/hillspet/pro...O_n_orig_USARG WD nutrition info

The canned food is pretty close in calories. The WD has more fiber/carbs. I'm assuming canned given you mentioned taking the peices of skin out??? Let us know if its canned and how much you were feeding. Do you home test? What is his current BG reading?
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Old 01-21-2011, 07:26 PM
Mickey'sMom123 Mickey'sMom123 is offline
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Default Re: Mickey has Pancreatitis

It was canned - Merrick Turdunken. He's on 3 units 2 x a day. He finally took a few pieces of the w/d, but initially, when he was first diagnosed w/the diabetes, they told me if he didn't eat, not to give him insulin. If he ate half, give half, etc. When I spoke to them this morning, while he was there getting tested for the suspected pancreatitis, they repeated the same thing assuming he would eat later. They neglected to tell me what to do if he didn't eat at all. I think he's looking a little more comfortable and I'm thinking that he might eat in the morning - if not, we will be taking him back first thing. I can't do home testing for him, although I really wanted to - I can't get blood, and when we try he bites. He got me good about two weeks ago. I've been using the Keto Diastix to at least keep an eye on the ketones and to get an "approximate" on the glucose. Mid-day today they told me he was at 275 (blood glucose test).

He took a few pieces of food (w/d) about an hour ago, but I'm afraid to give him any insulin because it was literally just maybe 5 or 6 pieces. Then he went back to sleep. I have no way to get in touch with the Vet before tomorrow, and they are going to hear about not being thorough enough to tell us what to do in a worse case scenario.

The problem also, is that our Vet who is really good, is out with Bronchitis or possibly Pneumonia and they've assigned this other Vet who is not nearly as thorough as ours. It really complicates an already bad situation.

I really appreciate your help and suggestions.

j.
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:57 AM
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jesse girl jesse girl is offline
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Default Re: Mickey has Pancreatitis

jesse has small amounts of insulin without food If you are an avid tester and home to check on her it may be an opportunity to see what amount she may sustain without food . jesse normal amount with food is 5 units and with no food it is 3/4 to 1 1/2 depending on her numbers so quite a bit less and she will stay in good numbers for most of the day. I think everyone should look into that if you are a home tester you never know when your dog will be sick or just doesnt want to eat and why leave them high numbers if you have done your home work
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Old 01-22-2011, 01:31 PM
Mickey'sMom123 Mickey'sMom123 is offline
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Default Re: Mickey has Pancreatitis

Update on Mickey: Because he basically did not eat last night, I did not give him his insulin last night. I was really concerned about him crashing (for the most part, he's always run a little on the low side). This morning he seemed perkier and very interested in eating. I tested him with the Keto-Diastix for any ketones (none) I gave him a cup of the W/D (a cup is the same amount that I gave him of the other food), and he finished that in record time. I put the nausea pill into the food so he had that, and I felt comfortable enough to give him his regular 3U dose of insulin about 15 minutes after finishing his morning meal. I also gave him his 1/2 Tramadol. He's so much better today - no vomiting at all, and his No. 2's are back to normal. Yay!

Thanks to all for your help and support - what a great asset this site is!

J.
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Old 01-22-2011, 05:50 PM
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Default Re: Mickey has Pancreatitis

That is GREAT news!!! So happy to hear all the good news. Congrats. Let's hope he stays on the happy path. Have a peaceful evening!
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Old 01-22-2011, 06:03 PM
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Default Re: Mickey has Pancreatitis

Yay. Good boy Mickey

Louise
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