Sweet Kona has passed... August 2015

[3bostons]

Re: Diabetes and Cushings

Thanks Cara, Im going to look into it, dont see anything listed closer to me than California but maybe my vet can find something out too.

Deb

[3bostons]

Re: Diabetes and Cushings

Ive been researching diets and what is suggested for diabetic dogs and it really seems conflicting. I find one site that says no carbs then another one says increase the complex carbs, fats, no fats, proteins etc. I was so confused last night I gave up and went to bed thinking it might make more sense today but so far no luck. I know for now my vet has said not to change her diet but I am just trying to be prepared in case I end up having to. With Kona having cushings and liver issues too I think maybe the norm of diabetes diet might not apply? Or is just that every dog will be different? I already have to watch her fat intake due to the liver issue so Im guessing that will be even more so now with diabetes?
She loves vegis but should I be thinking of avoiding certain ones now?

I know you guys have the experience already and hope you can help us.
Thanks,
Kona and Deb

[jesse girl]

Re: Diabetes and Cushings

yes the diets vary greatly . my Jesse is on a partially raw diet .

the prescription diets seem to do well but some dogs dont seem to like it all that much . so if your dog is struggling to eat it already i would look for something else

homemade gives the option of adding or removing what maybe needed . if you go commercial maybe something that is balanced with a lower level of fat

it appears there is a need for fiber and complex carbs to help to keep blood sugar stable ( excellent stable blood sugar is a 100 points or lower from high to low for the day )

sometime a dog needs some highly digestible carbs if blood sugar has a tendency to drop quite a bit after food and shot

having a backup plan is a good idea as far as food . so far my jesse just enjoys her food and hope that continues but things can change so being prepared is a good thing

one thing we know on the forum this is no magic bullet ingeneral for the diabetic dog its very individual one thing can work for one person and not for another its trial and error . some find the match faster than others and thats the luck of the draw

[amydunn19]

Re: Diabetes and Cushings

I have found with my dog that the high protein, no or low carb, doesn't work well for her. She will have high fasting and pretty large swings. I think a carb source is essential but your dog's reaction may vary from someone else's. My magic formula for Maggie may not be magic for your dog.

People have had success with everything from home cooked, raw, prescription, freeze dried, commercial kibble(high end to grocery store brands), dehydrated, wet food and a combination of any of the above-mentioned.

Maggie was so picky and so sick at first that it took a very long time to find a food she would eat willingly. It is a lot of trial and error and testing.

[3bostons]

Re: Diabetes and Cushings

Thanks for all the info, I kind of noticed by everyones postings that it can be a combo of any type of food, I guess I will find out when I start testing, vet appt tomorrow and should get me lined out I hope.

Im curious about the pancreatitis I keep seeing on here too. Is it painful or uncomfortable? The first nights problem that prompted the vet visit was just so confusing and the vet had no idea what it was but now Im wondering if it was pancreatitis or should they of been able to see that?
WHat had happened was she ate dinner and then wasnt feeling good, was up all night pacing and panting, wouldnt lay down, would try to but you could tell she was uncomfortable, she could sit but only for short time. then about 3 am she finally layed down and went to sleep and the next day was the vet visit and found the bg numbers and put on insulin. Now Im really wondering

[amydunn19]

Re: Diabetes and Cushings

Pancreatitis must be horrifically painful - my dog always shakes and is just really uncomfortable. My sister in law has had pancreatitis and she said it was worse then having a baby by quite a bit. She literally could not get out of bed or move.

[3bostons]

Re: Diabetes and Cushings

Ive heard the same thing, very painful. I just googled pancreatitis and diabetes and you get a million sites telling you YES they can be related and yes it can cause elevated blood sugar, it can even cause diabetes, so now Im doubting my vet even more, why didnt she put 2 and 2 together? I hope she is correct on this whole diabetes diagnosis and Im not putting Kona thru unneccessary insulin shots. Im even more curious now to see the blood results tomorrow, maybe her bg was high due to the stress and pain of the pancreatitis??? I dont know, but she gives me reason to doubt her now, this is not the first time. It all adds up though, she ate, she became uncomfortable, she was in obvious pain, paced all night and then it seemed to subside hours later.

[Cara Sandler]

Re: Diabetes and Cushings

I would recommend having your dog seen by an internal medicine specialist. Diabetes is one of the things they specialize in, and they would certainly be able to tell you whether your pup is truly diabetic or not. But yes, diabetes and pancreatitis are often seen together.

[amydunn19]

Re: Diabetes and Cushings

Vets don't usually consider pancreatitis unless there is bloody diarrhea and vomiting or refusal of food. The pacing and being uncomfortable may be symptoms of high blood sugar as well. I don't know if a vet would have been thinking pancreatitis without them being symptomatic. We have seen a type of pancreatitis that doesn't have typical symptoms but I don't know if that would jump out at the vet. I looked at the tests you posted and the amylase was in normal range which is usually high if the pancreas is inflamed.

There is a test that confirms pancreatitis - it is the Spec cPL.

[3bostons]

Re: Diabetes and Cushings

Ok, good to know. The test also shows the LIPA to be 511, is that the other enzyme indicative of pancreatitis or would both need to be elevated?

[amydunn19]

Re: Diabetes and Cushings

The lipase and amylase can indicate pancreatitis but could also indicate kidney disease, and gastrointestinal disease. The Spec cPL test is the only test for canine pancreas specific lipase.

[momofdecker]

Re: Diabetes and Cushings

Here is a good article on pancreatitis. There are three tabs: diagnosis, treatment, and related documentation.
https://www.idexx.com/smallanimal/ed...is-canine.html

My dog was one who ate with a passion every day. He never vomited. His bm's were solid and regular in frequency. His AMYL value on all of his blood work (he had 5 panels in one year) was consistently low. He would be gassy from time to time and would graze on grass like it was his last meal. But when tested via the SPEC cPL test, his value was over 400. Anything over 400 is consistent with pancreatitis.

My boy also had some other things (unknown to us at the time) going on. Once we treated those things and re-tested him 8 weeks later, his SPEC cPL value was 57 - meaning the pancreatitis had cleared. The gassy bouts stopped as did the grass eating.

[3bostons]

Re: Diabetes and Cushings

Thanks again for the info. We went to the vet yesterday to see our regular vet. She agreed that the pancreatitis numbers did not look alarming even though the symptoms sound similar, so for now no one is knowing what caused the pain and discomfort that night.

As far as the testing now, her urnine glucose is down from 1000 to 100, and still no ketones, so, much better. But her bg is still in the 500's. We started the curve and after the 3rd resulting in 567, she said there was no point in continuing. She upped her dose from 3u to 5u and I also chose to switch to the Novolin since it is early in her dosing and the cost is amazingly lower, even she was not aware. This morning was her first dose, we are to continue and then in 5 days will do another curve at home, and she said if Im still getting the 500's just call her and we will probably up it again.

She has held a steady weight for years, even thru the cushings I was always able to keep her stable, but she has lost 1 1/2 pounds in the past week. So I hope we can get this under control, she dont need to lose any more weight. I had ordered the alpha trak meter last week but being in alaska, shipping is always slow so I still dont have it and they are not available locally here. My vet will order it for you but they dont carry it either. But she is so nice, she had a spare older model ultra touch that she is letting me borrow until mine comes in. I know its the human one, but we used it in her office and did a comparison and its close, it will help me for now while upping her dose and switching the brands.

Kona is such a little trooper, we found that using her elbow callous is working ok, she doesnt flinch and when it takes me a few extra awkward attempts she looks at me like "cmon mom, get it right" I did forget to ask, since it is already a callous is it ok to keep using that or should I try another area too? I also forgot to ask about her salmon oil that she has been getting daily, is it ok to continue that or is it extra fat that wont be helpful now does anyone know?

I feel so clumsy at this and I hope I dont hurt her, she did kind of wince when I gave her the insulin shot so I worry I dont do it right but the vet showed me again. Kona just doesnt have much extra skin and like I said her coat is so thick its hard to be sure Im sticking her skin and not just the fur.

[3bostons]

Re: Diabetes and Cushings

as far as the fish oil and fish based diet, I should add that my vet recommended this years ago after Konas second round of cancer and had me continue when diagnosed with cushings. Since then, all has been well with no more cancer so Im thinking I would like to keep her on it if it doesnt interfere with diabetes. yes this poor girl has had more than her share of health issues.

[jesse girl]

Re: Diabetes and Cushings

i would not think the fish oil would have an affect on diabetes but like anything we dont know how it will work for every dog

for my jesse it seemed to give pooh problems but jesse digestive system is delicate . bone marrow really can mess things up for her .

i have used a discount humane meter for 4 years and it gets the job done for jesse

what you like is to establish how stable blood sugar is . you would not like to see huge swings in blood sugar especially in a short amount of time . sometimes this can be missed at the vet because the swings can cause a bit of resistance for a couple days which can give the illusion of more insulin is needed

your home testing will give a true reflection of what blood sugar is doing on a daily bases at home which will be very helpful